Tuesday, June 15, 2010

Good Old Atheist Incredulity

Here's a guy on a website trying to convene a bunch of know nothings, (I mean atheists) that there is documentation for miracles. I admit the claims are pretty wild. He actually has a site that claims an amputation grew back. But they don't really dismiss it for that reason. they dismiss it for no reason reason except that whenever he meets their burden of evidence they can keep coming up with more criteria.

these guys just illustrate so perfectly what liars atheists are. Everything they say about Catholic chruch and it's miracles is a lie, or it's an example of how they refuse to believe regardless of what the evidence shows. You can see this because they are obviously not willing to even give the evidence a chance and examine it.

http://www.matchdoctor.com/thread_87_18612_1/Medically_documented_Miracles.html

some message board. 
the miracle defender is named "bevrice"
I guess Bervely Rice. and is called "bev."

Bev:
Storm, there is an email address on there, email him, he will document it for you. I have another that has doctor's names and addresses on it, will post it. I put this on here because some said that there were no medically documented miracles.

This one has doctors names and addresses and ex rays.




eastham: (atheist)



This still doesn't make the documentation guidelines.
post reply view eastham's threads



Posts: 11,144 It has ex rays, doctors names, doctor's notes. the works.

I found many Catholic ones that pass that test according to the Catholic church.
post reply view bevrice's threads
Apr 5, 2007 @ 8:42 PM Medically documented Miracles
eastham
eatham

 I don't care about the denomination, documentation means the ability to written up in peer-reviewed journals. Less than that is a testimonial and not documentation.
post reply view eastham's threads
(in other words his excuse for not accepting the words of the doctor "yes I found this to be true" is because it has come from a journal. But the RCC has an academic journal that hey post stuff about Lourdes in, of course that's not good enough it have favors mriacles so it must be wrong and he rejects it. So he actually don't care about even "documentation.")

Kajae:
And the Catholics have proven soooo reliable. I really wouldn't use them to validate ANYTHING.
guilt by association. It must be wrong because it's catholic so it doesn't matter what the evidence shows. When they say they want evidence they don't mean it.



Except of course, child abuse laws.

quip about the Catholics, so they hold the scuttle butt of the day above the level of real evidence. Yea these guys such free thinkers, so so fair minded. they haven't got any concept of fairness. I was trust a pig in the mud to know more about fairness than an atheist.


Bev
Certainly, I would pray for someone who was dying.

eastham
But not help, typical.

(hateful scum just asserts that becasue she would pray she wouldn't help and then asserts a value judgment about her as a person based upon his foolish idiotic assertion that has not support. that's the atheist concept of "fair.")

storm bay
Bev your a complete joke,I've read through that site and nowhere does any doctor in any medical reports state or confirm her leg has grown back. They did operate to remove spurs from the bone, but all the rest relates to other procedures and cover all the other illnesses and complaints she has. Certainly not a healthy women by any stretch of the imagination.
he resorts to mocking and ridicule. He makes a comment about her worth as a human, based upon what? that her opinion differs from his. That's real fair! who can read this and deny that atheism is a hate group? This is no different than  KKK gay talking to a black person and saying "you are worthless because of you color!" You are worthless because you believe what I don't agree with! By this way this big thinking rationalist guy thinks that "your" means you are, as in "you're." "your" a complete is using the possessive form of you (yours) in place of "you are."



In other words Bev, its a fake, just like you nothing but deceit.
bev
I found many Catholic ones that pass that test according to the Catholic church.
storm bay
The catholic church, only requires 3 witnesses and doesn't need to include a medical doctor, but must include a representative of the church. The church has never been able to convince the scientific or medical profession that a medical miracle has happened, just the opposite.
post reply view stormbay's threads
Apr 5, 2007 @ 8:51 PM Medically documented Miracles
12knots
that's a lie of course. they don't just require that. they have a complex system of verification that certain does require very stringent use of medical evidence.



what follows are sites Bevrice gives that show miracles

post reply view 12knots' threads
Apr 5, 2007 @ 8:53 PM Medically documented Miracles
bevrice


Posts: 11,144 Carole's Doctors


Dr. James F. Coy, M.D.
Sunstate Preventive Medicine Institute

310 Nesbit Street

Post Office Box 511315

Punta Gorda, Fl 33951-1315

(941) 575-8080

Dr. James F. Coy M.D. is now the physician in complete authority over all medical decisions regarding the creative miracle of completion of my left leg.



Dr. Kenneth Levy M.D.
Advanced Orthopedics Center

1641 Tamiami Trail

Suite 1

Port Charlotte, Fl. 33948

(941) 629-6262





Orthopedic Specialist since 1986, Dr. Levy amputated my left leg below the kneecap in 1995. In the year 2000, Dr. Levy documented that my amputated left leg is growing back and is a creative miracle from God. There is no other explanation! (Dr. Levy is now retired and no longer involved in my case.)



Dr. David S. Goris, CPO


American Board Certified Prosthetist Orthotist

Sonlife Prosthetics and Orthotics, Inc.

6111 Deltona Blvd.

Spring Hill, Fl. 34609

(352) 596-2257



bev

Dr. Goris is the President of Sonlife with extensive experience in both Prosthetics and Orthotics. He received his bachelors degree from Calvin College in 1976 and went on to receive his degree in Prosthetics and Orthotics from Northwestern University in 1980. He is certified by the American Board for Certification and meets their requirements for continuing education on a yearly basis. Some of his most recent studies include custom prosthetic restoration and implementation of Computer Aided Design and Manufacturing (CAD/CAM) technology. Dr. Goris also certifies that my leg is a creative miracle from God.



Dr. Harvey Tritel, MD, FAC


Florida Heart Associates

2675 Winkler Ave.

Suite 460

Fort Myers, Fl 33901

(941) 936-3896





My Cardiac Specialist since 1989. Please refer to documents in the book regarding this miracle.



Todd D. Nowell, O. D.


After-image Eye Care. P.A.

Spring Hill, Florida 34606

(941) 352-688-1102 Phone





Examination July 17, 2006 Vision 20-20



Click here to download the free book to learn more about the miracles.


Okay, storm, here you go, call them.


post reply view bevrice's threads
Apr 5, 2007 @ 8:55 PM Medically documented Miracles
bevrice


Posts: 11,144 Buddha didn't believe in miracles.
post reply view bevrice's threads
Apr 5, 2007 @ 8:56 PM Medically documented Miracles
12knots


Posts: 6,400 Of course.

Nothing special about them. Kids play.

post reply view 12knots' threads
Apr 5, 2007 @ 8:56 PM Medically documented Miracles
eastham


Posts: 6,409 At least Storm, there is room built into the system for those who make the oppositive arguement. The opposing side must/should be represented. For example, Christopher Hitchens was interviewed and questioned extensively during discussion about Mother Theresa being cannonized.

Not so with Bev. That line was to make me expressly feel uncomfortable...not that it worked.
post reply view eastham's threads
Apr 6, 2007 @ 1:44 AM Medically documented Miracles
bevrice


Posts: 11,144 Catholic miracles at Lourdeshttp://www.geocities.com/meta_crock/other/Miracles2.htm

Catholics always make sure their miracles are medically documented, you know.
They won't even call it a miracle unless it is. They have rigid rules.

[Edited on 4/6/2007 1:54 AM]
post reply view bevrice's threads
Apr 6, 2007 @ 2:16 AM Medically documented Miracles
stormbay


Posts: 695 Bev there is no medically verifiable documents on either site, to support what you or they say, none whatsoever. If there were, then it could be accepted if the doctor states its a miracle but there is nothing. Believing the catholic church has any credibility is gullible in the extreme, when you see their history and the desperate efforts they go to in trying to lie, cheat and deceive their way out of anything they get caught out on.
that's a lie because there certain is. they have vast evidence and rules of evidence and medical exprints who judge the evidence. see my miracle pages on Doxa

atheist know all
Trolling to find evidence so desperately is not the sign of someone who knows their subject, just someone who clutches at straws without proper research. The sane of the world Bev, aren't as gullible and superstition as you.
 one of them just asserts that she's only trolling and doesn't' know these things even though she said one of those is her personal doctor. These know nothings are not willing to examine the evidence, not even willing to look at a single source.

post reply view stormbay's threads
Apr 6, 2007 @ 6:28 AM Medically documented Miracles
bevrice


Posts: 11,144 not trolling, you have doctors you can check with and phone numbers.

The Catholic Church calls very few healings miracles, they have to be medically certified.


here's the run down on Catholic miracles:


The claim for a miraculous cure is first examined by a medical board at the local level were it is claimed. The medical tribunal determines whether the disease was well-documented, had no hope of cure, that it is without any scientific explanation (no possible other causes, including the effects of medical care already received or spontaneous remission), and that it has continued (that is, it wasn't temporary). If it passes muster the decision is commited to a theological tribunal at the diocescan level.

The theological tribunal must determine whether it meets the criteria of a supernatural intervention. To be judged supernatural it must be beyond the power of created nature (including angels, good and bad). A disease might be caused by a fallen angel and then a "cure" result from the demon withdrawing his influence. The disease would remit with no explanation. For theologians, therefore, there is a clear preference for spontaneous cures of terminal or otherwise hopeless cases: the person with MS, Parkinsons, tuberculosis, cancer, etc. who is cured from one moment to the next, with diseased tissue becoming healthy instantaneously. Since the angels (good or bad) cannot create tissue, such cures are evidently beyond their power. Cancer that remits, with healing resulting over time from the recuperative powers of the body, would not be conclusive.

After a positive finding at the local level, the case is sent to Rome where it goes though the same two-stop process with new scientific and theological experts.

I know of no such rigor being applied to claims of miracles outside the Catholic Chuch.




post reply view bevrice's threads
Apr 6, 2007 @ 9:04 AM Medically documented Miracles

12knots


Posts: 6,400 Science is the miracle maker.

this last little 12 knots has to kick in this irrelevant rejoinder that means nothing "science is the miracle maker" what? I thought atheists ay there aer no miracles. now they think scinece is a miracle what?

these people are criminals. they should be in jail for crimes against reason. They don't even have the guts to look at the evidence.

5 comments:

A Hermit said...

"I admit the claims are pretty wild."

Does that mean you don't believe them? Why not?

"these people are criminals. they should be in jail for crimes against reason."

You want to lock people up for not blindly accepting your religious beliefs? How Christian of you...;-)

Metacrock said...

A Hermit said...

"I admit the claims are pretty wild."

Does that mean you don't believe them? Why not?

I find it hard to believe that a limb would grow back, but that's not the point. The point is the way they treat her merely becuase she has a different view.

see this is typical of you, you don't' give a rat's ass why they do to her. their treatment of her is shameful you do not care! you care only that the poor little bully thugs are getting to blame the victim enough.





"these people are criminals. they should be in jail for crimes against reason."

You want to lock people up for not blindly accepting your religious beliefs? How Christian of you...;-)

again totally oblivious to the way your sides treats people.

A Hermit said...

" The point is the way they treat her merely becuase she has a different view.

Something you would never, ever do, right...;-)

"see this is typical of you, you don't' give a rat's ass why they do to her"

They raised legitimate objections to her assertions. Some of them may have been a little impolite, but that doesn't entitle you to label them Nazis even if you think people making unsupported claims (which even you agree are "wild" are entitled to unstinting courtesy.

There also may be a history between these commenters, we don't know what may have passed between them before this conversation.

You won't change people's behaviour by behaving like them (or worse than them, as you often do.)

It's also worth noting that the conversation you're quoting here took place in April of 2007! How does trolling the internet looking for three year old exchanges on message boards to selectively quote from contribute anything to credibility?

Metacrock said...

still in there guarding the rights of the bullies over the evil victims they harass.

I'm glad the bullies have such a champion in you. they need so much help. poor bullies, so put upon by those email women who get mocked and ridiculed by them, I'm sure it must be very tiring for them. i am glad you care so deeply that the brutal harassers of innocent people are not taken advantage of.

talking about the points they make, of course they didn't examine a single claim, not in any way, they merely called them names and said they can't be true. Yea wow what intellectual heroes.I guess that's what you admire then right? strength, brutality?

so you are saying that the fact that had some good points (don't' know where but ok) is more important than what they do to people right?

Metacrock said...

tell me Hermit in your zeal to defend the bullies do you say that strom bay's brilliance allows him to say to her, totally unprovoked she never responds in kind)

"storm bay

Bev your a complete joke,"

are you willing to say "that is uncalled for?"

I want to see you write the words "that was uncalled for" or do you say he's justified in doing because he's soOOOOOO brilliant!???