Sunday, March 14, 2010

Textbook example of hate group propaganda

from comment sent to blog
Hey Mr. I see hate everywhere,

Is it hate speech to report the truth? Is it when it is about religion? And the harm it causes?


It's hate speech to exaggerate the truth into an all pervasive truth regime that harms other people. That's what you are trying to do with your little poison lies. Let's just consider the fact that I have 200 studies from psychology, from academic journals that say a certain kind of religious experience is real good for you. You are saying that doesn't even matter, the one and only thing that matter is your little list of hateful bromides that are mainly propaganda to begin with far outweigh any facts or set of facts or truth that would normally count against your mendacity. I wonder how long its been since you actually cared bout what it true?




I wonder how all these victims feel about the religious experience. I wonder how the pope sleeps at night knowing that he personally was responsible for shielding a pedophile who later re offended.

How do you think the victims of lies and character assassination feel about having their lives destroyed by lies told for the sake of winning an ideological cause? Has it ever actually crossed your mind that the Pope might to be guilty? After all the facts are that he was not involved in the process of shielding the guy and had absolutely nothing to do with the case. He just happened to be in charge at the time and like any good leader took responsibility for it because it happened on his watch but he wasn't' actually involved in any part of the case. But do you even give a damn weather he's really guilty or not? Aren't you actually ready to destroy any life that supports the ideology you despise regardless of the facts about the bs you attach to justify it is true or not?

How about the way you sneak in that innuendo agaisnt RE without even considering what the facts about it say? It must be bad it's something for the victims of the evil religious people to feel cheated over right? you don't even know what that means, you are just doing a knee jerk reaction against anything religious.



I wonder how the rotten corrupt parasite on humanity known as the Catholic Church is going to spin all of this crap to try to look good. Maybe they will just say that it is gods will, and duck responsibility for it all. DISGUSTING!
O that's not hate is it? the whole Catholic chruch is evil from top to bottom not one of them are decent they are all child molesters right? Of course only have the Christians are Catholic but I'm sure that doesn't stoop you from hating the other half too does it? Can't you see that any time you label all of a whole group as one thing or another it's unfair and silly and you are working in fit of hatred? Is the kind of motivation that most atheists are working from? Are you actually willing to allow facts into your world, or all facts have to be filtered through your hate to be valid and "knowledge?" Tell me if evidence did exist to exonerate the Pope would you even care?


The Catholic church in Germany has been rocked by a sex abuse scandal, a scandal that now threatens Pope Benedict XVI. It has just come to light that while the Pope was archbishop in Southern Germany he covered for a pedophile priest, a priest transferred to a job where he later went on to abuse more children.

Germany is only now beginning to experience the shocking disclosures of widespread child sexual abuse by clergy that are now all too familiar to an American audience. Since the end of January, there has been an explosion of Germans coming forward to report cases of sexual abuse by Catholic priests.

http://current.com/1tmbc4c
But he didn't cover up. That's not how the news media sources in America have put it. The report I saw on ABC last night said he was not personally involved in the handling of the case. What are they actually caling a cover up? Is it the knoweldge that the case existed or the guilt of the preist himself?

From what ABC said they were not covering up the facts that abuse took place, the real fault was in letting the guy go back to work after therapy. He responded to therapy how could have known he would not remain in that place of rehabilitation? Well they were probably stupid for letting him to back at all. But they were naive to trust the rehab but that is not at all the same as covering up the truth of the case!


You are using this against religious experience, you haven no evidence at all that any child molesting priests ever had the kinds of experiences in the studies.


Oh yeah, I almost forgot; a few days ago the pope's chief exorcist had some comments about the devil being at work in the vatican last week. I wonder if they will blame the devil for the gay prostitution activities that were discovered last week as well.

They are a blight on humanity.

Odd that you can't supply specifics. What exactly are you saying? I see there open ended implications and an attempt to create an impression but no facts at all. Do you even care about facts at all? do you even have a concept of truth? If the Pope was totally exonerated by the strongest evdience in the world would you stop talking about it or would continue asserting that he's guilty?

Do you have any kind of shame about your own hatred and your own lies? Would you stop telling them if they were disproved? Sexual abuse of children is sick, but there is also a lot of evidence of recovered memories being false. You are willing to totally  and unconditionally hate the whole group of the RCC and everyone in it just becuase of the actions of some, and not all of those accusations are even valid. I know there are priests who abuse children but there are also priests trying to stop it, and probaly some percentage of it is false memories. To be willing to hate and despise and seek to destroy a whole group of people becuase of the actions of a few is basically Nazism.

The studies show that having this kind of experience is good and makes your life better and makes you a better person. That does not mean all people describing themselves as "religious" automatically have that kind of experience. It's at best 1 in four. Trying to claim moral authority against religious experience so as to outweigh the validity of it is a lie and a misleading and stupid tactic becuase it totally ignores the truth. The abusing priests are not necessarily mystical experiences. So your argument as a whole is just non applicable. But it really is a textbook example of hate group propaganda.

Guilt by association, hateful generalization agaisnt every single person in a given group, character assassination, unfair innuendo, waving the bloody shirt, you have made every single fallacy that any hate group minion makes.

Hatred of a person or group based upon their religion is counted by the FBI as hate group activity. It's part of the definition of hate used in the model of develpment used by the FBI.

"The Seven Stage Hate Model: The Psychopathology of Hate Groups."
By JOHN R. SCHAFER, M.A., and JOE NAVARRO, M.A.
Hate, a complex subject, divides into two general categories: rational and irrational. Unjust acts inspire rational hate. Hatred of a person based on race, religion, sexual orientation, ethnicity, or national origin constitutes irrational hate.
 The model shows that hate is actually making insecurity and is used to bolster one's own self esteem. You know how I'm always saying that mocking and ridiculing Christians is something atheists do to feel good about themselves? This is where I got that. The model itself says it. Schafer and Navarro site a court case:Bumper vs. North Carolina 391 US 543 (1968)

 
     Both rational and irrational hate mask personal insecurities. Everyone experiences personal insecurities in varying degrees throughout their lives. The more insecure a person feels, the larger the hate mask. Most people concentrate on the important issues in life, such as earning a living, rearing a family, and achieving personal goals. These pursuits give meaning and value to life.2 Nonetheless, irrational hate bleeds through day-to-day activities in the form of racial barbs and ethnic humor. Not all insecure people are haters, but all haters are insecure people.
     With respect to rational hate, haters do not focus as much on the wrong done to them or others, but, rather, on their own helplessness, guilt, or inability to effect change. The object of rational hate often is despised or pitied.3 In the same way, irrational hate elevates the hater above the hated.4 Many insecure people feel a sense of self-worth by relegating a person or group of people to a lower status.5
 You need to think about that, that seems to be exactly what you are doing.

4 comments:

Rex said...

No, the failure in the case of priest who received therapy (probably just prayers) and then re offended is NOT that the therapy didn't work (really no surprise, given that the vow of CELIBACY didn't work either!), but that IT WAS NOT REPORTED TO THE AUTHORITIES WHEN IT HAPPENED. Instead, the man who in now the pope, ordered "therapy" and then reassigned him. A lengthy jail sentence would have prevented the second transgression, if only the authorities would have known.

Our domestic media is afraid to say it like they are doing in Europe. I think it it because they don't want to scare the sheep who need religion to survive in the big scary evil sinful world.

Here is some more supporting current event news.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/05/world/europe/05vatican.html

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2010/03/papal-aide-vatican-singer-fired-over-alleged-gay-prostitute-ring-/1

http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/chief-exorcist-rev-gabriele-amorth-devil-vatican/story?id=10073040

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-407808/Pope-led-cover-child-abuse-priests.html

See? I am not making it up!

So, Mr. I see hate everywhere, are the USA Today and ABC news and the Daily Mail guilty of hate speech? For telling THE TRUTH?

Metacrock said...

No, the failure in the case of priest who received therapy (probably just prayers) and then re offended is NOT that the therapy didn't work (really no surprise, given that the vow of CELIBACY didn't work either!), but that IT WAS NOT REPORTED TO THE AUTHORITIES WHEN IT HAPPENED. Instead, the man who in now the pope, ordered "therapy" and then reassigned him. A lengthy jail sentence would have prevented the second transgression, if only the authorities would have known.


But the pope didn't handle that. He was the archbishop but he was not in charge of handling the case. I don't think there's any evidence that he personally made the decision to cover up.

you are blaming every single catholic in the world for this thing that a tiny group of them did.


Our domestic media is afraid to say it like they are doing in Europe. I think it it because they don't want to scare the sheep who need religion to survive in the big scary evil sinful world.

OF course it can't be that European media wants to take the Catholic chruch down because they are atheists and have less respect for institution. Do you even anything about European media?

Even their media admits he wasn't personally in charge of the case.


Here is some more supporting current event news.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/05/world/europe/05vatican.html

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2010/03/papal-aide-vatican-singer-fired-over-alleged-gay-prostitute-ring-/1

http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/chief-exorcist-rev-gabriele-amorth-devil-vatican/story?id=10073040

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-407808/Pope-led-cover-child-abuse-priests.html

See? I am not making it up!

I wish you would learn how to make links

So, Mr. I see hate everywhere, are the USA Today and ABC news and the Daily Mail guilty of hate speech? For telling THE TRUTH?

do you actually have the gaul to deny that you are hateful? how can you possibly be so blind that you can't even see the foam out of your own mouth?

Rex said...

Wow! Your persecution complex is getting the best of you!

I said that they are a blight, and I have tried to give evidence for my statements by providing evidence of ongoing scandals and cover-ups that reach all the way to the pope.

All of these things are in the news every day, but I see that in your view, everyone who wants to take the church to task for CRIMES that they have committed is part of a hate group.

And you wonder why people get so outraged over these issues!

Transgressions have occurred, and all you can do is say that bringing them to light is a function of hate.

You are only interested in allowing the vileness to continue because hey they are all men of god, so how can they be rotten?

I sure hope that you are never in a position of having to choose between reporting a crime against a child, or covering it up to preserve the image of the church and that of a "good man of god", because, from your comments, you would probably choose the cover-up.

Metacrock said...

Wow! Your persecution complex is getting the best of you!

I said that they are a blight, and I have tried to give evidence for my statements by providing evidence of ongoing scandals and cover-ups that reach all the way to the pope.

those are pretty piss poor scandals compared to one's in secular organizations. The one about child abuse is real serious, they are all serious not wide spread or none have the gravity of watergate.

All of these things are in the news every day, but I see that in your view, everyone who wants to take the church to task for CRIMES that they have committed is part of a hate group.


No I want to take the chruch to task too. But you are using that as an excuse to foment your hatred. You use it to vilify all of religion.

And you wonder why people get so outraged over these issues!

No, I don't wonder actually. It would be pretty outrageous. If it happened to me I would be pissed. You use that as an excuse to abuse of religion. There are tons of religious people who have not abused children. the overall percentage is probably about 3% that have if that many.

there's also a whole half the Christian world that is not even under the authority of the Catholic hierarchy.


Transgressions have occurred, and all you can do is say that bringing them to light is a function of hate.

I just cleared that up. you are repeating yourself.

You are only interested in allowing the vileness to continue because hey they are all men of god, so how can they be rotten?

Actually I'm not. I never said I would let them continue. I would start reforms by allowing priests to Marry so that the people in those jobs would not be those who are sexually on the fringe anyway. I would kick out those who did, prosecute or at least inform the authorities and not defend them in court, if it was proved they were guilty and never let them be in a position to do it again.

I sure hope that you are never in a position of having to choose between reporting a crime against a child, or covering it up to preserve the image of the church and that of a "good man of god", because, from your comments, you would probably choose the cover-up.

Have you ever heard of the McCarthy era? you are just trying to start a witch hunt where you can work up people's hysteria to a point where they blame all religion for the ills of the world.

atheism has been responsible for far more pain and suffering than religion ever has. Atheists governments killed 100 million people. they tortured people and they started the Goulogs. atheist governments have been evil.

every atheist government that has ever been in power wound up torturing millions and murdering millions.

That does not include the Sandinistas in Nicaragua becuase they were not an atheist government.

Did you know the Sandinistas printed Bibles? Did you know they had four priests on the Frente? (the highest governing body). So Nicaragua had a communist government that was not atheist and they were cleared of abuse by human rights groups.

then of course your ignoring the good stuff Christianity has done which has been immense.