Monday, April 6, 2009

Should we outlaw brownshirtism?

This guy Russ who got so worked up on DC is reacting t the statement I mad in the past about making atheism illegal. Of course, he totally ignores the context, he ignores the fact that I said "this is not applicable to all atheists, just tot he segment I call "hate group atheism." Of course the atheists have never acknowledged that I have always made that distinction. I have distinguished between other atheists and hate group atheists since the first day I ever began to speak of hategroup atheism. I made that distinction no the first time I posted on atheist watch, on the old version of atheist watch.

I said it over and over again almost every single post for the first 40 or so posts but they never acknowledged it. They through fits, they set up a hawl, they accussed me of being evil, they all mannar of evil against me over and over, but never once did acknowledge that I distinguished between one kind and another. Eventually I just quite saying it becasue they couldn't see it. they were just blind to the words. every single time they would go "you think all atheists are Nazis." I would say "only those in the hate group segment" but then they would just say "You think they all are."

Now they think if I say Nazis should be illegal then I'm a Nazi. I said hounding and persecuting people for their religious faith should be illegal (and really it actually is). Atheists are oblivious to the fact that religious people are persecuted minorities. Atheist so selfish and busy feeling sorry for themselves (most of them) that they just never think of religious people are persecuted they only think them as persecutors and they themselves as victims That's really quite stupid because American atheists at any rate are totally free to believe anything they want.

They are pissed at me because I want to close down their little game of belittling Christians. They do get so much out of feeling superior to Christians it would really hurt them to lose their hobby. It is illegal to slander people. It is illegal to ruin someone's reputation. Atheists have lied about me, they have organized a conspiracy and I can prove it. they did it on the secular web I can prove it was an organized conspiracy. The very day someone converted becasue of my arguments that was the day they banned me for life. Prior to that I had apologized for getting upset and not been insulting people for several says. Then after the banning they laid and made up things to attribute to me which I had not said (they said that I admitted that I"m stupid and I didn't go to graduate school and that I know I"m no good at debate--these are obviously things I would never say). But since I was banned I could not get back on and deny it.

Prior to that time they had watched my board closely. Every time I sneezed they would upt up a thread. But they said nothing at all about my denials of those statements. I can prove that they curse the net looking for people to harass and belittle. When I first put up my boards they wold go on there and start their crap "there's no proof for our God." I would say "we don't do that here." Now they don't even brother to go on. Also another time I went on a board and before I even got into a spat the board leaders say "You are that Metacrock, we have been warned not allow you to come on here becasue will be so insulting." Of course I'm suer Hermit will say "O you are so insulting" but he never did admit that I am insulted becaseu of how I'm treated.

do you think people in real life find me that way? no they do not. they lik me. I'm considered a nice inoffense littel guy> in ever insult anyone. as I a child I was the favotire of old ladies. I have been that sort of insulting person. everyone likes me althoguh none of them ever think of me as dynmatic jsut bland and inoffenseive. ITs' only on the net becuase its here I amb fight back against the bullies.

I can show you many many other people who have very similar experinces. most of htem just figure O well it's the internet and move on. I a'm the only stupid enough to think I can do something to stop the wave of hate and oppression tath these little anti-Christ persecutors are starting.

the really are a band of bullying apes running around trying to force their views on the world any one who gets in their way they stomp on. What's their method of disproving it? they start slandering more.

When I demanded that Hermit show me what I said in that comment section that set off Russ. He admits it's based upon past things I said. This is a clear principle that atheists work buy. If you ever screw them you can never be forgiven. You will be guitly all your life becasue yous aid something at some point in the past. So he goes from "you were insulting him" no it's proven I wasn't read the thread, to "hell it's justified to hold a grudge from the past.

The kind of world an atheist would have, violent, rude, ran by bullies, were one must grab for anything one can get at any cost. In other words, a world like the one we live in. That's why the Bible talks about "the world." Because they are the world. They are the world lost sinful boys who are wiling bully anyone who gets in their way and they can't see any other kind of world because they are so cynical and it makes them feel good to bully people anyway.

I guess I am coming to the conclusion that I was wrong. It begins to look like it wasn't' just a segment but the whole shmear of atheism that is the hate group.

20 comments:

A Hermit said...

"When I demanded that Hermit show me what I said in that comment section that set off Russ. He admits it's based upon past things I said. This is a clear principle that atheists work buy. If you ever screw them you can never be forgiven. You will be guitly all your life becasue yous aid something at some point in the past. So he goes from "you were insulting him" no it's proven I wasn't read the thread, to "hell it's justified to hold a grudge from the past."

That's not what I said at all, Joe. You're twisting everything...

J.L. Hinman said...

I was not going to quote a private email verbatim without permission. But you did in fact say something to the effect that you know I said nothing to set him off in that comment section, that he was reacting to former things that had been said before.

do you want me to quote the passage? shall I cut and paste from private email?

A Hermit said...

It's your blog, do whatever you like...you're completely missing the point of what I've been trying to say to you.

But in the meantime I want you to consider this: This is what the real Nazis did...

How dare you wrap yourself in the suffering of the real victims of Nazism? Do you really think someone being rude to you in an internet forum rises to that level of evil?

And when you say things like this:

"you and this site together have no concpet of fairness. civlity or debate. you are nothing more than little hate monger seeking to harm others. you are far beyond merely being rude. you are nothing more than hateful little naiz trying to hurt the target group becuas eyouk filled with hate.

You are not just smearing Russ with that evil you are lumping everyone on that forum in with him. You throw in this caveat about not meaning ALL atheists, but then you turn around and smear us all in the next breath; you do this all the time. (That's why people like Russ think you're some kind of fundy who thinks all atheists are Nazis and should be locked up. That's the impression you leave when you lose control start ranting like this.)

It's uncalled for, it goes far beyond any offense that was done to you there, it's an insult to those millions who suffered at the hands of real Nazis and I'm sorry, but I'm not going to sit here and pat you on the head and sympathize when you behave like that.

Now, please stop it!

J.L. Hinman said...

here's what real atheists did

what they did

J.L. Hinman said...

You are not just smearing Russ with that evil you are lumping everyone on that forum in with him. You throw in this caveat about not meaning ALL atheists, but then you turn around and smear us all in the next breath; you do this all the time. (That's why people like Russ think you're some kind of fundy who thinks all atheists are Nazis and should be locked up. That's the impression you leave when you lose control start ranting like this.)


that's not fair to describe my true position as something I've thrown in. It's a position I've been careful to deliniate the whole way through.

they are acting like brown shirts. the brown shirts did'nt live to take part in the actual haulocost they were killed by the SS so they couldn't turn on Hitler. But whiel they were around they were like the political action thugs on the street. That's what this segment of atheists are doing for Dawkins.

it's all jacked down tot he level of the internet. Its' all virtual. But it's still bullyism and thugism.

J.L. Hinman said...

you don't find it just a bit incongruous that Russ is going to prove I'm wrong for calling them Nazis so he does it by a shameful person attack based upon taking my statements out of context instead of dealing with he real issues.

That's like saying "I'll prove to you I'm not a redneck" then beating the person up.

A Hermit said...

"that's not fair to describe my true position as something I've thrown in. It's a position I've been careful to deliniate the whole way through."

That's the problem though, you THINK you've been careful because started adding that caveat, but when you lose your temper you either forget to make it clear, or your broaden the scope of the alleged "hate group", or you throw the caveat out altogether (like you do in this very post), and you do so often enough that the caveats look insincere at best. (Like the "some of my best friends are black/Jewish/Catholic/gay...BUT..."comments we hear from people trying to justify their own prejudices all the time.)

The only way you're going to convince me that what I'm seeing here is not a form pf anti-atheist bigotry is to stop using the Nazi/hategroup smear and start addressing these things appropriately; ie pointing out that certain individuals behave like bullies, instead of invoking this hate group conspiracy theory every time someone rubs you the wrong way.

A Hermit said...

WHich brings us to this:

"here's what real atheists did"

Come on Joe, do you really want to turn this into a game of "body count"? You knew I hate that stupid game...

Communism and atheism are not synonymous, you know better than that. (The Nazis were also vehemently anti-Communist, by the way, so now you're really confusing the issue, aren't you?)

Anyway the point here is that none of the people you are accusing of being "Nazis" or 'Brownshirts" (and now "Commies", I suppose...which is odd coming from someone who admits to having been a Marxist himself...) have done anything to you that even begins to approach that kind of evil.

You're trying to borrow the real suffering of Hitler's victims to make yourself seem more of a victim than you really are.

That's an insult to the memory of the real victims.

STOP WRAPPING YOURSELF IN THEIR SHROUDS!!!!

David B. Ellis said...


This guy Russ who got so worked up on DC is reacting t the statement I mad in the past about making atheism illegal. Of course, he totally ignores the context, he ignores the fact that I said "this is not applicable to all atheists, just tot he segment I call "hate group atheism."


Define "hate group atheism" and what, specifically, would you be making illegal.

What would constitute the crime?

I mean, obviously, if some atheist organization started bombing churches we'd have a real crime. But what could an atheist do that isn't a crime currently which you would like to make into a crime under our legal system?

J.L. Hinman said...

Hermit your acrimony is totally uncalled, in appropriate and it's not your place to decide what allusion I can refer to and what I can't refer to.


the atheist on CARM, Infidel guy, DC, and others are working the spirit of dictators and oppressors. They are a gang of bullies trying to force their opinions on the public and silence those who oppose them with hate, belittling, intimidation and brutality. that is exactly what the brown shirts did. they may not use their fists, but they are doing the same thing, just on a lesser scale.

no one made you keeper of the metaphors.

J.L. Hinman said...

Dave, Dave. Dave. you went on my boards practically begging me to give you a God argument.

when I finally do it's over your heard so instead of studying the back so you can understand it you resort to this massively whining cop out "you can't communicate."

come on man, face the fact that there are good reasons to believe in god not all Christians are stupid open your mind and start learning.

David B. Ellis said...

If you recall, you and I had very lengthy conversations discussing your theistic arguments several years ago. Your arguments haven't changed. Nor has my assessment of them. Your TS argument, for example, uses terms whose meaning is ambiguous and never defines them.

Frankly, I have better things to do than waste my time analyzing arguments so amorphous as verge on sheer gibberish.

David B. Ellis said...


the atheist on CARM, Infidel guy, DC, and others are working the spirit of dictators and oppressors. They are a gang of bullies trying to force their opinions on the public and silence those who oppose them with hate, belittling, intimidation and brutality.


I don't doubt that you encounter many obnoxious and belittling comments when debating religion on the internet. We atheists frequently encounter the same from theists.

But intimidation? Brutality?

Did an atheist come to your door and beat you up because he didn't like one of your theistic arguments?

Or is your hyperbole just getting grossly exaggerated again?

David B. Ellis said...

In your reply I note that you didn't answer the question:

What is it that's not already a crime you'd like to make into one?

J.L. Hinman said...

n your reply I note that you didn't answer the question:

What is it that's not already a crime you'd like to make into one?

I don't think there's a law against internet bullying. I don't know if liabel laws apply to message boards. that's the kind of thing I'm thinking of.

Ok maybe my statement should be refined to say "we should explore options in this area: libel, slander, character assasination."

do I mean we should outlaw atheist books and put atheists up against the wall? Of course not!

J.L. Hinman said...

But intimidation? Brutality?

Did an atheist come to your door and beat you up because he didn't like one of your theistic arguments?

most bullying is psychological. Psychological brutality is still brutal.

J.L. Hinman said...

f you recall, you and I had very lengthy conversations discussing your theistic arguments several years ago. Your arguments haven't changed. Nor has my assessment of them. Your TS argument, for example, uses terms whose meaning is ambiguous and never defines them.

Frankly, I have better things to do than waste my time analyzing arguments so amorphous as verge on sheer gibberish

the brightest atheists I know say the TS argument is facinating. you say it's gibberish. clelary you don't understand it.

You do not get it. you almost as much as admit it.it seems like gibberish to you that means you don't get it. Other bright atheists think it's interesting but you don't get it.

that should be an index to your mentality. I know you are bight, but you are also narrow minded.

David B. Ellis said...

You're free to believe that.

Have you ever tried to get one of these essays published in any sort of philosophy journal?

I suspect that anyone reviewing your work for publication in any journal of philosophy of even modest standards would have much the same reaction I have.

J.L. Hinman said...

see this journal?

Negations

wh0 is the publisher?


Editorial Staff

J.L. Hinman — Publisher

Tim Wood — Managing Editor

Ray Hinman — Poetry Editor

Jim Bratone — Special Editor

Lantz Miller — Book review Editor

Fran Carris — Copy Editor

Patricia Miklos — Copy Editor

Roger Thompson — Proofing


why would academics associate with a publication like that I'm such an idiot and my articles are so stupid?

here's the editorial board. you can see this on the website but just to make sure you look at it.

Editorial Board

Alex Argyros — Literary Studies, University of Texas at Dallas

William S. Babcock — Director, Graduate Program in Religious Studies, Southern Methodist University

Charles R. Bombach — History of Ideas, University of Texas at Dallas

David Channell — History of Ideas and — Philosophy of Science, University of Texas at Dallas

William Gibson — Sociology, University of California at Santa Barbara

Susan Heckman — Dean of Graduate Program in Humanities, University of Texas at Arlington

Frederick Hotz — Philosophy, Collin County Community College

Lorraine Kahn — Formerly Visiting Scholar in Film, Institute of Industrial Relations, The University of California at Berkeley

Barry Katz — Formerly Professor of Philosophy, Stanford University

Marcia Landy — Department of English, University of Pittsburgh

Kevin Mattson — Ohio University; formerly, Rutgers University

Greg Miller — Communications, San Diego State University

James O’Connor — Professor of Economics, The University of California at Santa Cruz

Jim Perkinson — Historical Theology, University of Detroit

Brian Spitzberg — Communication, San Diego State University

Trudy Struenegle — Kent State University

Theodore Walker — Perkins School of Theology, Southern Methodist University

Victor Worsfold — Ethics, University of Texas at Dallas



You will find articles by me in there. Now that's not big deal since I"m the publisher. Even though it was blind submitted and they actually did turn me down on one and I didn't publish it. I don't expect you to believe that.

but ask yourself, why would they risk ruining their careers by publishing in a journal ran be me if I 'm so stupid and no one likes my stuff? why would they do that?

I'm sure that you don't a big name from a hole in the ground but several of those people were big names in their fields.


Now what do academics think of my book? Ralph Hood the major guy who researchers religious experinces, has read the book, the book is about the personal experience studies and thinks said "It's good." He said "I will help you find a publisher." Why would he say that if the thinks I"m stupid?

why would he stick around and help through all the chapters if thought it was stupid?

Alex Argyrox who studied wtih Derrida once said that one of my papers was "the finest paper I've ever seen." I told him the TS argument he said it was brilliant.

why is it so hard for you little ego to come to terms with the fact that you are not smart not well educated. you don't as much as me and your not amazingly brilliant like you think you are and you are real narrow minded?

David B. Ellis said...

LOL

Let me get this straight. I ask you if any credible philosophy journal would publish any of these shoddily written, rambling essays on arguments for theism and, instead, you point me to the fact that the only way for you to get anything published in a journal is to create your own?

That's supposed to establish your credibility?

Again, I invite you to submit one of your theistic argument essays to a credible philosophy journal.

I think we both know it would be rejected.