Originally Posted by Metacrock View Post
according to my theory sin is a necessary risk if you want a moral universe. No risk of sin (because of free will) no moral universe. To have one means having endure the other.
Atheist:Ah I see, so God is directly responsible for sin in your theory. What purpose does sin or humanity exactly serve? Can God create something
people who choose to sin are responsible for sin. what should we call the failure to recognize this? the inability to understand ethical thinking?
God took a risk that he had to take. I say again, that he had to take had to take had to take.
you need not choose sin! get it?
more morally good then himself?
I can't understand this twisted logic. you are told God has to risk allowing you to choose wrongly to get the good, but you choose. then you up and decide well it must be God's fault that I chose wrongly. If he was on his toes he would stop me from choosing.
Are you really so unable to take responsibility for what you do? then you turn around and want me to say that atheists are moral? in what sense are you moral if you can't be trusted with moral choices?
Atheist: can people sin in heaven?
I don't really know because I haven't been there. But I would say it's theoretically possible. But why would they? it's already pre selected and made up of people who chose to be good.
Atheist:Would you say that Heaven isn't entirely sin-free since the prospect of it still exists?
why would I say that. you see you are afraid to take responsibly and thus want your choices to be taken away form you as though you are child but moral people don't have to do that. since heaven has all moral people in it then we can assume no one sins.
When you say 'pre-selected', do you mean in a Calvinistic sense of "We are selected when we are born"?
No, when we get saved in live not when we are born. pre selected from the other end, form death.
Exactly how much 'suffering' or 'life' does someone need to experience before they understand "Internalized Good Values"? Is there any difference between a kid who dies only experiencing a scraped knee or a very old man?
That's like asking how old do you have to be before you are mature.
Like I said before. you can't get there without going through it. you can't cheat your way to experience. you have to do the work to get the experience.
Atheist:But God is it without going through it (which in some metaphysical lingo means he is actually above just having it). Why didn't God just do to humans what he is himself? He himself is able to abide by the "Internalized Good Values" without needing the experience of 'living' on earth. Why didn't he just create humans with that same trait?
Man I just don't understand what its so hard for atheists to understand these things. so clear to me. I tell you over and over God is the basis of what is good. ti's who he is, its base dupon his character. not ours. we don't have that charter. we have to acquire it God has it because he's god. he' perect he is it. why can't you understand that?
At some point they will invariably turn the issue to "you are saying atheists aren't good people and can't be moral, so that means you hate us." This is really a symptom of guilt. Somewhere deep inside they feel that they are sinners, but the conditioning of it is so painful they can't accept it. The average Christian thinks, "we all sin, all us Christians know that, so it's just matter of being aware and asking forgiveness, but of course you have to be sincere." Really I think that's the whole issue, atheists sense in their spirits they are sinners, because all people are, but they don't want forgiveness they want amnesty meaning,t hey don't want to stop sinning, they just don't want the condemnation for sin. So they make a matter "telling me this is an insult" so they can shut the Christian up and not be reminded, and then chalk up their bad feelings to the evil useless nature of guilt feelings, which in the atheist mind are the most absurd, evil, and bad kinds of feelings. All feelings are bad, we should all be passionless unemotional scinece machines, but guilt feelings are the worst.