Thursday, January 8, 2009

Positive Atheist Froum Deals with Atheism as Hate Group

The blog Positive Atheist Forum Deals with the Question "Are Atheist Groups Rightly Seen as Hate Groups?" This was the original question ask by this blog, and its' original mission, to make know to the public the dangers of Hate group atheism. Apparently the question was bothersome enough that some atheist have felt compelled to answer it or deal with it in some way.

Positive Atheist Forum deals with first by distancing themselves from right wing racist group World Church of the Creator:


From their blog:


* Reference: Our Identity As Atheist Organizations by Cliff Walker
* Perspective: Letter Submitted To US News
* Perspective: Letter Submitted To The New York Times

In researching the piece "Our Identity As Atheist Organizations," I wrote to Matthew Hale, leader of the World Church of the Creator, and asked him if they call themselves an "atheist group." The response from his office was a resounding no.

From: Positive Atheism
To: Matthew Hale
Subject: Atheists?
Date: Wednesday, July 14, 1999 4:00 PM

Much discussion has ensued since The Washington Post called The World Church of the Creator "an atheist group." The other major journals we've consulted (New York Times; US News) fall short of using that word. Our question is, would you use the word "atheist" to describe the World Church of the Creator?



the other way they deal with it is to have atheist write in and say "we are not a hate group." But this proves nothing. I don't think there is an actual hate group that can be labeled as "the atheist hate group" and I have said from day one of this blog that I a not claiming that all atheists are like this. There is a fundamentalist end of the atheist spectrum that fits the profile of a hate group (see the post on this blog). That is segment is growing and is probably fueled by the internet.


here's an example of the sort of deniel:


From: "Many Paths"
To: "Positive Atheism"
Subject: Are_Atheist_Groups_Rightly_Seen_As_Hate_Groups
Date: May 15, 2002 2:28 AM

Are atheist groups rightly seen as "hate groups?"

The term "hate group" as I see it refers to particularly vicious organizations such as; the KKK, neo-Nazis, skinheads, Fred Phelps and the like. Some of the factors that these groups have in common are; authoritarianism, dogmatism, and generally a narrow view point. Atheist organizations on the other hand encourage independence of thought, to search for truth rather than insist that we know everything and are always right. To lump atheists in with these other groups is absurd.

I have never heard of a religious person being violently attacked by a group of atheists (it may have happened once or twice, but I've never heard of it.) The cases of vandalism of churches seem to be done by other religious groups, racist groups, or stupid drunk teenagers -- not atheists. Atheists do not picket funerals of dead religious leaders, they do not have Bible bon-fires, or consider any particular type of person to be unworthy of joining.


But the reason there is no violent attack as yet is because we are only at stage four on the FBI model. violence hasn't occurred yet, although there was one case where an atheist or a group of them were caught planning to burn a church but were unable to. Violence my be coming, it hasn't happened yet because we are not far enough along on the evolutionary process of hate group development. It may even be that even though message boards galvanize the haters and work them up they may also function as a safety valve.


here is stage four through six of the model:





Stage 4: The Hate Group Taunts the Target

Hate, by its nature, changes incrementally. Time cools the fire of hate, thus forcing the hater to look inward. To avoid introspection, haters use ever-increasing degrees of rhetoric and violence to maintain high levels of agitation. Taunts and offensive gestures serve this purpose. In this stage, skinheads typically shout racial slurs from moving cars or from afar. Nazi salutes and other hand signals often accompany racial epithets. Racist graffiti also begins to appear in areas where skinheads loiter. Most skinhead groups claim turf proximate to the neighborhoods in which they live. One study indicated that a majority of hate crimes occur when the hate target migrates through the hate group's turf.15


Stage 5: The Hate Group Attacks the Target Without Weapons

This stage is critical because it differentiates vocally abusive haters from physically abusive ones. In this stage, hate groups become more aggressive, prowling their turf seeking vulnerable targets. Violence coalesces hate groups and further isolates them from mainstream society. Skinheads, almost without exception, attack in groups and target single victims. Research has shown that bias crimes are twice as likely to cause injury and four times as likely to result in hospitalization as compared to nonbias crimes.16

In addition to physical violence, the element of thrill seeking is introduced in Stage 5. Two experts found that 60 percent of hate offenders were "thrill seekers."17 The adrenaline "high" intoxicates the attackers. The initial adrenaline surge lasts for several minutes; however, the effects of adrenaline keep the body in a state of heightened alert for up to several days.18 Each successive anger- provoking thought or action builds on residual adrenaline and triggers a more violent response than the one that originally initiated the sequence.19 Anger builds on anger. The adrenaline high combined with hate becomes a deadly combination. Hard-core skinheads keep themselves at a level where the slightest provocation triggers aggression.

Stage 6: The Hate Group Attacks the Target with Weapons

Several studies confirm that a large number of bias attacks involve weapons.20 Some attackers use firearms to commit hate crimes, but skinheads prefer weapons, such as broken bottles, baseball bats, blunt objects, screwdrivers, and belt buckles. These types of weapons require the attacker to be close to the victim, which further demonstrates the depth of personal anger. Attackers can discharge firearms at a distance, thus precluding personal contact. Close-in onslaughts require the assailants to see their victims eye-to-eye and to become bloodied during the assault. Hands- on violence allows skinheads to express their hate in a way a gun cannot. Personal contact empowers and fulfills a deep-seated need to have dominance over others.


It may be that we are not far enough along in the process to have open attacks yet. Maybe that will never come. But one thing that can be seen by anyone at any time is the depth of hatred that exists out there for Christianity on the net and message boards. No atheist has of yet taken up my challenge to go on a message and pretending to be a Chrsitain. Of course the right kind of message board such as Atheist.net, Infidel guy, the Secular Web.

12 comments:

A Hermit said...

You taunt atheists and attack them verbally (quite violently, at times.)

Does that mean Doxa is a hate group?

Andrew said...

Hermit, NO.

It means they are defending themselves agains attacks and accustations.

Such as you have leveled routinely.

Who ya kiddin, sport?

J.L. Hinman said...

you lying little prices of shit murdered my reputation. you are nothing more than murderers. You would murder if you had the chance. you are nothing but pure evil. lying little pieces of shit have no concept of argument or fairness.

billwalker said...

We Atheists are not a HATE group. We are a HATED group. This is because we have been vilified from countless pulpits. We are not 'customers'. We hav put behind us ALL of the primitive tribal gods created by our primitive ancestors.The HATERS still believe in one or a few. Don't hate them, feel sorry for them.

J.L. Hinman said...

We Atheists are not a HATE group. We are a HATED group. This is because we have been vilified from countless pulpits.

Pastors never say they hate atheist. you are assuming if they think you are sinner they must hate you. that's just your guilt not true.


We are not 'customers'. We hav put behind us ALL of the primitive tribal gods created by our primitive ancestors.The HATERS still believe in one or a few. Don't hate them, feel sorry for them.


you are the pathetic one. I have a great life, I"m real happy, if God is not true I don't care because they idea of God is wroth supporting anything becuase it's made my life so much better. That doesn't mean I don't care about facts. I would like to know if there is no God, so please how the the evidence. (I know there is none).

but nevertheless if I had proof there was no god would still talk about God as though I believed in him because it's better than being a cynical moron who closes off possibilities of life for a narrow minded number cruncher ideology.

But that's not gonna happen because God is real and you are merely missing the boat. you are missing joy you could have because you are foolish. You want to rebel against Daddy and you let that keep you from truth. For the sake of childish rebellion you miss what's there for you.

billwalker said...

It is not possible to prove a negative. I can't even prove there is no Santa Claus. Common sense, logic intelligence, educationetc. all tell me there is no Santa Claus, the same thing tells me there's no god. Question : What do you think would be your religious beliefs had you been born to Muslim parents in the Middle East ?

J.L. Hinman said...

It is not possible to prove a negative. I can't even prove there is no Santa Claus.

I didn't ask to prove there is no God. I asked to show any kind of evdience that indicates that it's unreasonable to believe in god. you can't do that either. The best you can do is merely wave your little sense of supiriority around and demand that you have to be right.



Common sense, logic intelligence, educationetc.

the vast majority of people in this world find that their common sense says there's a God. It's only the little hate group atheism which is no more than 3% of the human race who try to indicate otherwise because their warped sense of the divine is screwed up.

Logic certainly doesn't tell you because atheists are abysmal at logic. I've seen an atheist reason well against a god argument.

what in eduation would tell you here's no God? nothing. that's stupid. you are just suffering form teh typical atheist naive acetpance of reductionist ideology.

the vast majority of great thinkers have believed in God. the list of atheist great thinkers is pathetic. It could be writ large on the bum of a fly with a broad brush.




all tell me there is no Santa Claus, the same thing tells me there's no god.

No it doesn't.


Question : What do you think would be your religious beliefs had you been born to Muslim parents in the Middle East ?


tell me why you think that has anything to do with anything? What if I was Muslim, don't think they beileve in God?

J.L. Hinman said...

btw I'm going to use your statement here on my other blog, Metacrock's blog and expand upon the illogical assumptions you make. This might take a day or two so watch for it.

billwalker said...

You have already proved MY point beyond my wildest expectations. Thanks. Your figure of 3% non- believers isn't accurate even in THIS hotbed of christinsanity. Instead of mimicing Cliff Walkers format, do some home work 7 some real thinking. Did I thank you for having proved my point ? By the way 1.1 billion muslims see no divinity in the late JC.

J.L. Hinman said...

billwalker said...

You have already proved MY point beyond my wildest expectations. Thanks. Your figure of 3% non- believers isn't accurate even in THIS hotbed of christinsanity.



Yes it is. check adherents.com. higher figures don't distinguish between people who are not members of organized and those who don't believe in any kind of God.

find the real stats here:


Inflated atheist figures

Instead of mimicing Cliff Walkers format, do some home work 7 some real thinking.


I have no idea who Cliff Walker is. You wouldn't know an original thought if it bit you. Atheists are far too stupid to do any real thinking.



Did I thank you for having proved my point ? By the way 1.1 billion muslims see no divinity in the late JC.

that has nothing to do with anything. they believe in God that's' the point. any assaiety is all assaiety. that's all you need.

now because you are an atheist and you totally ignorant of theology and you little satanic master Dawkins tells you you don't need to know anything you criticize. you don't know what that's important. But take my work for it to totally destroys your argument with brutal efficiency.

billwalker said...

I thought that Atheist watch was a group that sought dialog with Atheists. I am getting the impression from Mr. Hinman that he absolutely HATES Atheists. He's interested in spewing his hatred of us. Atheists are simply people who have no god belief. Period.We're a highly diverse group in any/all other matters. It's OK if others worship a god or gods.We don't care. I stopped believing way over 60 years ago, but I have friends & relatives who still believe. No big deal.

J.L. Hinman said...

Bill I am putting my answer to you into the major blog piece as the next post. I feel answering the question is important for all to see.