aterlialist Reduction of Religous Concepts

two recent posts on CARM. These are not typical of all atheists but they are typical of a certain segment who I think just can't stop liberalizing metaphors and can't understand concepts.

Originally Posted by Dr Pepper 

The existence of God all boils down to a few simple questions. What is it? Where is it? When is it? and Why is it?

Meta:you guys keeping to reduce God to psychosocial dimensions. you are still trying to make God a thing in creation. God si not a thing in creation. It's senseless to reduce God the physical. Physical is a illusion. it's a product of mind. God is not physical, physical is a product of God's mind.

there is "there" there. God is nowhere and everywhere.

DP:

What is it? God can't be composed of matter and or energy since this is the stuff the makes up the universe and God created it. So what kind of non material stuff exists that can make matter and energy from nothing? In this regard how does said stuff end up thinking and behaving in ways similar to animal life on our planet, specifically human beings. With over a million separate species why pick human beings to give special consideration?

Meta:

matter is not the basis of reality. mind is the basis. Matter is just another for of energy science tell us this. Mind is energy. So everything reduces to mind.

DP

Where is it? We are unable to detect it using any kind of electromagnetic, gravitational or energy output with any known instrument mad by man. Some humans report a mental contact but an equal number do not. Those reporting mental contact can show no physical evidence to indicate from where the contact originates other from within the human brain.

Meta:

this sounds like a hot shot point but it's really quite childish. Do you realize that there is no "beyond" space/time in a physical sense? No one thinks there's a big room some place that space/time is spinning around in. there is essentially no phsyuical place "off the beach ball" so to speak. I had a book by a philosophy of scinece guy named John Powers who says there is guarantee that there's a physical realm beyond space/time. a Mathematical realm does not prove it's a physical realm.

If God is all encompassing mind and the physical world is an idea in that mind then God is in all things and above all things and doesn't have to be anywhere.

When is it? The universe appears to have expanded from a single point some 13 billion years in the past and this expansion is accelerating even today. What existed before this expansion began we know not. Maybe nothing, maybe something we simply do not know. Where does God fit into this scenario? If God existed before the big bang how long did it wait to start the universe expanding from whatever it expanded from.

Meta:

this is childish ignorance. everyone knows it's just common knowledge that beyond the event horizon of the big bang one moves (if one could move there) beyond time. So Go dis beyond time. you can't ask "when?" there is when beyond time. that's like saying "before time." it's wrong.

If everything must have a cause or beginning then when did God begin to exist or to create stuff? Just 13 billion years ago? Forever is a long time even for a God.

Meta:

quote the law that says this? It's a ill conceived notion. God did not begin. why can't you get the concept in your head/ God had no beginning. just like the ICR you use to excuse your lack of a final cause. God is eternal. Of the bottom line is the notion applies to everything natural or everyting not necessary needs a cause. not everything you can name including God? God is obviously excluded. You don't include the cause in talk of effects.

say it with me now "God has no beginning he is eternal, he has always been."

DP

Why is it? Why does the universe need a God? If the universe actually began expanding for an unknown reason and this expansion produced the universe we see today with the properties that allows life to exist why do we need a God? Why couldn't matter and energy simply react as it does to produce what we see it doing?

Meta:

why is a meaningless question. you believe in brute facts. you don't ask why when you argue for the bogus notion of an impersonal origin for the universe. you don't need a when when you try to shove in a meaningless excuse of an origin to compete with God. why do you demand a why for God?

all the whys resolve in Love. why create? to love. my die on the cross, for love. why be good, becuase its loving.

 InfiniteHopes' 10k challenge!

I'm no James Randy to offer 1mil. But I can spare 10k. But, I'm also a gamer (I injoy board/card games) I dont gamble per say, but I'm not opposed to it. So, I will bet my 10k agenst yours if you would care to wager on an outcome - but I do not think anyone will "take my bet"
So, forget betting - I'll just offer the 10k ($10,000) to anyone who can show some way to afferm that the "supernatural" "spirtual" "sprits" "ghosts" "devils" "demons" "angels" "God" "god" "Gods" "gods" "afterlife" "heven" or "hell" actualy exist by using any of the below:

1: Emperical evedance.
2: A repeatable test.

For the next catagory, I will offer $5,000.
You can get this money if you can offer up a logicaly sound decitive augment whos premices are KNOWN TO BE TRUE. And that does not fail any of the logical rules of persanary diolouge, no falacys alowed! Do this, and I'll paypal you the 5,000.

--

I asked The amazing Randy if he had studied the Lourdes miracles? He said no he had not. So you have no evidence that they included. they are not seeking his money so why would they? So this childish challenge is not any kind of proof against Christian miracles. It is telling as a sign of the times that these materialists lump the "real deal" of God's grace in with "para normal" fraud.

What does it mean that someone is willing to make a bogus comparison like this??

This is actually the atheist fortress of facts at work. We have this big pile of facts and you can't disprove it you have no facts of your own. Of cousre I demontarted the disproof of the fortress of facts in my two part debuncking the athesit fortress of facts.

Materlialist Reduction of Religous Concepts

two recent posts on CARM. These are not typical of all atheists but they are typical of a certain segment who I think just can't stop liberalizing metaphors and can't understand concepts.

Originally Posted by Dr Pepper

The existence of God all boils down to a few simple questions. What is it? Where is it? When is it? and Why is it?

Meta:you guys keeping to reduce God to psychosocial dimensions. you are still trying to make God a thing in creation. God si not a thing in creation. It's senseless to reduce God the physical. Physical is a illusion. it's a product of mind. God is not physical, physical is a product of God's mind.

there is "there" there. God is nowhere and everywhere.

DP:

What is it? God can't be composed of matter and or energy since this is the stuff the makes up the universe and God created it. So what kind of non material stuff exists that can make matter and energy from nothing? In this regard how does said stuff end up thinking and behaving in ways similar to animal life on our planet, specifically human beings. With over a million separate species why pick human beings to give special consideration?

Meta:

matter is not the basis of reality. mind is the basis. Matter is just another for of energy science tell us this. Mind is energy. So everything reduces to mind.

DP

Where is it? We are unable to detect it using any kind of electromagnetic, gravitational or energy output with any known instrument mad by man. Some humans report a mental contact but an equal number do not. Those reporting mental contact can show no physical evidence to indicate from where the contact originates other from within the human brain.

Meta:

this sounds like a hot shot point but it's really quite childish. Do you realize that there is no "beyond" space/time in a physical sense? No one thinks there's a big room some place that space/time is spinning around in. there is essentially no phsyuical place "off the beach ball" so to speak. I had a book by a philosophy of scinece guy named John Powers who says there is guarantee that there's a physical realm beyond space/time. a Mathematical realm does not prove it's a physical realm.

If God is all encompassing mind and the physical world is an idea in that mind then God is in all things and above all things and doesn't have to be anywhere.

When is it? The universe appears to have expanded from a single point some 13 billion years in the past and this expansion is accelerating even today. What existed before this expansion began we know not. Maybe nothing, maybe something we simply do not know. Where does God fit into this scenario? If God existed before the big bang how long did it wait to start the universe expanding from whatever it expanded from.

Meta:

this is childish ignorance. everyone knows it's just common knowledge that beyond the event horizon of the big bang one moves (if one could move there) beyond time. So Go dis beyond time. you can't ask "when?" there is when beyond time. that's like saying "before time." it's wrong.

If everything must have a cause or beginning then when did God begin to exist or to create stuff? Just 13 billion years ago? Forever is a long time even for a God.

Meta:

quote the law that says this? It's a ill conceived notion. God did not begin. why can't you get the concept in your head/ God had no beginning. just like the ICR you use to excuse your lack of a final cause. God is eternal. Of the bottom line is the notion applies to everything natural or everyting not necessary needs a cause. not everything you can name including God? God is obviously excluded. You don't include the cause in talk of effects.

say it with me now "God has no beginning he is eternal, he has always been."

DP

Why is it? Why does the universe need a God? If the universe actually began expanding for an unknown reason and this expansion produced the universe we see today with the properties that allows life to exist why do we need a God? Why couldn't matter and energy simply react as it does to produce what we see it doing?

Meta:

why is a meaningless question. you believe in brute facts. you don't ask why when you argue for the bogus notion of an impersonal origin for the universe. you don't need a when when you try to shove in a meaningless excuse of an origin to compete with God. why do you demand a why for God?

all the whys resolve in Love. why create? to love. my die on the cross, for love. why be good, becuase its loving.

InfiniteHopes' 10k challenge!

I'm no James Randy to offer 1mil. But I can spare 10k. But, I'm also a gamer (I injoy board/card games) I dont gamble per say, but I'm not opposed to it. So, I will bet my 10k agenst yours if you would care to wager on an outcome - but I do not think anyone will "take my bet"
So, forget betting - I'll just offer the 10k ($10,000) to anyone who can show some way to afferm that the "supernatural" "spirtual" "sprits" "ghosts" "devils" "demons" "angels" "God" "god" "Gods" "gods" "afterlife" "heven" or "hell" actualy exist by using any of the below:

1: Emperical evedance.
2: A repeatable test.

For the next catagory, I will offer $5,000.
You can get this money if you can offer up a logicaly sound decitive augment whos premices are KNOWN TO BE TRUE. And that does not fail any of the logical rules of persanary diolouge, no falacys alowed! Do this, and I'll paypal you the 5,000.

--

I asked The amazing Randy if he had studied the Lourdes miracles? He said no he had not. So you have no evidence that they included. they are not seeking his money so why would they? So this childish challenge is not any kind of proof against Christian miracles. It is telling as a sign of the times that these materialists lump the "real deal" of God's grace in with "para normal" fraud.

What does it mean that someone is willing to make a bogus comparison like this??

This is actually the atheist fortress of facts at work. We have this big pile of facts and you can't disprove it you have no facts of your own. Of cousre I demontarted the disproof of the fortress of facts in my two part debuncking the athesit fortress of facts.

Amazing Randy, the center of the atheist universe

not so Amazing Randy

On an atheist message board I was giving an account of an incident that happens to me years ago involving the Amazing Randy. I had asked him if he studied Lourdes in an email and he sent one back cursing me.

I was polite. I didn't say "hey Jerk..." I was a polite as I could be. I asked him if he had studies the Lourdes miracles. He sent an email backing saying that he had not. It should have let it end there but since they had goaded me about the money I added something to the effect that if he did study the miracles maybe he would find he should give the money to the Catholic chruch. I mean after all, if they fit the conditions why not? I didn't curse I did not saying rude or hateful.

He did come back a string of curing calling me names telling me I was this and that and the other thing. So I sent one back showing him I have as a vocabulary has he does. We exchanged a couple like that I don't remember how many. I really don't blame him that much because he probably gets jerks and cranks and peple harassing him and he probably I was such a person. I really wasn't trying to do that. I think it was suggesting the Catholics should get the money that made him think I was a Catholic I guess, and perhaps a troll or something.

I know another guy who had a very similar experience with him. It was another issue and I don't know what the issue was.

The atheists on that board just accept the fact that this happened. It had to be my fault or it didn't happen at all. When I produce all sorts of proofs and insist it did then one of them just resorts to insults:

I did not do that nor did I say I did. Read what I said above (that's on the first page of the thread and this is on the second) I clearly stated that I began asking him if he studied Lourdes. I don't have the authority to make a claim on behalf of the Catholic church so I did not. I merely suggested that he should study it. So this guy can't read. Then he comes out with this:

The fact that you would initially present the claim might have been due to the fact that you hadn't researched into the requirements (i.e. read the application) prior to submitting the claim (which seems evident).

The fact that after presented with the reason (by me, just a few days ago, in this very thread) as to why this claim doesn't qualify, that you then attribute to Randi (with an "I") some ulterior excuse, indicates to me that you have a tendency to see things that aren't really there. Perhaps you are genetically disposed to such delusions, and it's not something you can overcome. If so, this is no moral fault of yours. My mother has the same problem, so I'm very aware of the symptoms. I'm not sure if there is any medication or therapy that helps with this, or not — I know that a weekly dose of "Jesus doesn't like liars" seems to have been helping her a bit lately, but hasn't completely taken care of it. If I were in the same position, though, and someone pointed this out to me, I think it would be in my best interest to try as many things as I could to overcome the problem. I know it has caused her much heartache, personally and professionally.

Well damn. His little hero is besmirched so he has to become insulting. He invents this little fiction about my sanity rather than believe that his little idol would do something wrong. See how this just shows that they are infected with the brain washing and they handle what's real? They can't accept facts so they invent things do any sort of excuse just to avoid admitting one little truth.

If the Amazing Randy is a Jerk does that mean God exists? No of cousre not. Does it mean all atheists are bad. no of cousre not. So why is this guy so unable to handle reality that he has to invent this little insulting theory rather than admit one little hero could have a bad day?

In fact I actually tried to let randy off the the hook. I said it was just a bad day i don't hold it against him. But that's not good enough for this little self serving asshole who whose mother is insane. Why is he throwing this little tirade?