What was the reaction to the information that blasphemy is hate? Rather an say "I don't hate anyone" they actually began defending their hate. They also expressed a confusion about the distinction between critical thinking and mocking. Apparently many atheists actually think that mocking and reducible are on a par with intellectual commentary and critical thinking. That tells me they don't know what those things are.
First I show that blasphemy is hate. In in the previous post I quoted Websters who defines blaspheny as showing contempt. Contempt is a form of hate. If we look for the definition of contempt we find it means "the act of despising : the state of mind of one who despises : disdain" (Websters online). Their first reaction was to deny that despise means to hate. Now of course I can well imagine there is a fine distinction between the two, but what kind of mind tries to rationalize his hate by saying "it's not really hate it's despising?"
Originally Posted by MikeWC
Why do Christians always identify themselves with God?In other words, silly little victim thinking this about you. I responded to this by saying:
Someone insults God, and Christians act as if they themselves have been insulted. What's up with that?
Nobody here is spray painting pentagrams on churches or firing Christians.
Get over yourself, Meta.
If you met me I said "your father is an idiot and jer and he's totally dishonest and I don't beileve he exists." wouldn't you feel a bit insured? you would feel some connection with it right?Answer (by MarkUK): "He can prove his father exists; you haven't. He can also prove that his father would take offence at your comments; you haven't." If you are talking about something they don't think exists then you feelings aren't important. You should just shouldn't feel like it defines you. If they are not willing to allow your sacred beliefs to define you, guess who is trying to define you?We don't call it "totalitarian" for nothing.
Aussieguy:
Why should religion get a free pass? Much of it is very stupid and very dangerous?Again why should we allow the victim to decide what's important to him. We will tell you who we think you are and what's important to you. If we dont' think it's important then our hatred is fine as long as its what we want. Then he rationalizes this fascistic mentality by comparing religious victims of his hate with Muslims who did the attack in Libya. So if you are a victim of hated toward religion and yu fight back then you are on a par with the guys who blew up the world trade center.
Is it hate speech for me to say that Muslims who called for the death of the author of the recent "Innocence of Islam" video stupid and barbaric? I say they are stupid and barbaric. Am I wrong to say this?
reverrendog:
i have no hate, i find your claims to be without merit and instead of bothering to look at why, you assume i hate you or your ideas. you take the internet waaaaaaaay too seriously and despite being on here for years, can't grasp that no one really cares enough about your ideas to hate anything about them.
lol dude i don't hate anyone on the internet, i save that for people who deserve it.
So it's just a little game. No need to take it seroiusly. All the guys who kill themselves due to cybre bullying they are just losers we need to write them off. Notice what this same guy says about it below.
In the same thread I said: "mocking and ridicule are not fair, they are not intellectual they not based on thinking they are based on bully stuff. " This same reverendog who says he has no hate says:
when was life ever fair meta? you whining about bullying is hilarious, you bully people all the time, and mostly for no other reason than someone disagreed with your nonsense!
They put up thread after thread about how evil and mean the God of the OT is. How he's commanding the murders of whole nations and wiping out everyone in a flood. When it comes the hurt they cause the hate they fume and spew over victims of their stupidity, then it's just that they are losers. Life is unfair get used tot. He has no hate but if he did it wouldn't matter because that's just life. Then he goes eve further and reaches new heights in blaming the victim.
You don't get to cry until you fix your problems? In other words it's your fault. If some hateful fascist beats you up it's your fault, you are a loser you are marked out for victim hood becuase you haven't fix what's wrong with you. Why do these paragons of know-all-ness get to the the one's who do the fixing? Why do they get to be the mockers? Just becuase they are crass enough and hateful enough to ditch civilized behavior and do it. What would they say if we all (the majority who believe in god) got together and took them out and shot them. Would they say "I deserves this because I didn't' fix y problems?" Of course they are not hurting anyone, just using emotional blackmail to make them deny who they are and settle for eternal damnation in order to be victimized by bullying, so what if we just beat them up a bit will that be ok. Now of cousre I'll get a flood of angry adolescence saying 'how dare you advocate violence toward atheists." I don't I''m not he one excusing hurting people on the premise that they deserve it because they haven't fixed their problems yet.
you don't get to cry about bullies until you fix your own problems. also we have freedom of speech in this country, and people can say what they want. i mean it shows more about you if you get so easily butthurt over words meta.
Of cousre he can't distinguish between free speech and license to hurt people by ridicule. So for him there's no middle ground. Just as they can't distinguish bewteen critical thinking and ridicule. If freedom comes with responsibly these guys don't deserve freedom. They can't distinguish between rights to free speech and license to maim.
Then there's this billiant gem:
Leyman: "How does one "bully" a religious belief, Meta? When we blaspheme your God beliefs we are not "bullying" you personally in any way, shape, form, or fashion." I guess no one is being ridiculed then because you can't ridicule an idea. Of course it's not about hte people holding it is it. In another exchange with Aussieguy he expressed indignation because I suggested that it would be ok to ridicule and insult Aborigines for their dream time and other "ridiculous beliefs." He immediately graps the idea that if you ridicule their beliefs you are ridiculing them. He expressed indignation at insulting dream time as stupid because you are also insulting the people, their self definition as to who they are is wrapped up in their lore. Then of course he can't grasp the idea that Christians identify with Jesus and the cross and the empty tomb. Those are stupid ideas that deserve to be mocked, hey it's just he internet. If you make fund of Aborigonies then somethings really wrong with you.
The other answers for two whole threads are the same. They to decide everything, if they mock and ridicule you it's your own fault you are just a loser for believing stupid things. They don't hate anyone but if they did it would be ok becasue there's freedom of speech and hate is just an intellectual exercise in critical thinking. Don't you think the Brown shirts made similar kinds of rationalizations every time they beat up a Jew? I'm sure they said "Its just politics it can't really hurt anyone."
25 comments:
Who is the victim here, Metacrock?
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendl...osing-miracle/
"Way back in March of this year, the President of the Indian-based skeptic organization, Rationalist International, was invited by an Indian TV channel (TV-9) to visit the Church of Our Lady of Velankanni in Vile Parle, Mumbai to offer his opinion on a supposed miracle. The President, Sanal Edamaruku, is like the Indian version of James Randi or Penn Jillette. He is well known in the country and has been debunking miracles for over 30 years.
The miracle in question involved the dripping of water from the feet of a statue of the crucifixion, a miracle that that seems to crop up all around the world… at least when pieces of toast with Jesus on them are in short supply.
Edamuruku was quickly able to pin the cause on a leaking drainage system, with water being drawn up through the nail holes in the statue’s feet by capillary action. Needless to say, the locals and the church were not happy.
People had flocked to the site in thousands to collect the miracle water… which turned out to be sewage… which means it’s likely many of those people became ill. That didn’t worry the church, though, eager to make a quick buck.
Edamaruku accused the church of exploiting people for money, a tactic that did not go down well. Edamaruku later participated in a heated debate with the pastor of the church, Father Augustine Palett, on national TV. Father Palett had little time for actual debate and instead spent his time threatening action, by way of a blasphemy complaint, if Edamaruku refused to apologize. Edamaruku welcomed this, as it would be a chance to present his evidence in court with the priests and bishops on the witness stand. Of course, no apology was forthcoming and Palett has since made good on his threat..."
Sanal Edamaruku is now living in exile in Finland with a criminal charge of "blasphemy" hanging over his head and the threat of jail time if he goes home.
You want to fight hate, Joe? Sign this petition...https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitio...anal-edamaruku
so that's supposed to justify hurting people? Ridicule destroying self esteem and forcing them to accept your definition of them instead of a self definition so yu ca pat yourself on the back and say "i'm right."
so one bit of anecdotal evidence is supposed to disprove god and prove all the illiterate polavor of atheist stupidity?
this is their excuse to bully people. O it's ok becuase we are right about stuff. Well you don't get to whine about religion controlling your life until you fix yourself.
this is their excuse to bully people. O it's ok becuase we are right about stuff. Well you don't get to whine about religion controlling your life until you fix yourself.
And, what does some phony church have to do with Jesus Christ and his message? That church is just like the Pharisees, the people that Christ was opposed to.
there you go!
Are you or are you not in favour of laws against blasphemy, Joe?
yes or no...
Should Sanal Edamaruku be in jail for warning people not to drink "miracle water" that was actually sewage?
What about Alexander Ann, imprisoned in Indonesia for saying there is no God...are you in favour of that or not?
You're whining about "bullying" but the real issue here is freedom of expression and freedom of belief.
the issue is not freedom of expression. the issue is that you think blasphemy is crticial it's not. What use that term to cover for is expressions of hate. It's somewhat a matter of semantics becuase in some extreme society where you don't have freedom to disagree disbelieve might be considered blaspheme. you ar trying equate blasphemy with critical thinking and it's just a cover for atheist to oppression religoius people and destroy religious freedom.
you aer a bully. the only people who tells those who are abused that they are whining are abusers. the only people who tell battered wives they are whining are wife beats. the only people who tell victims of ridicule and assault that they are whining are the bullies that assault them.
you do not believe in free speech you are longing to take freedom to worship God away form people.
you are brain washed you are bully.
You're not answering my question...
That's like you ask "are you still beating your wife?" the other says "that's not a fair question" you say "You are not answering my question." why is it when you show how unfair the atheist questions are then they just "you are not answering my question." You are question is stupid and it's designed to imply stuff it should not imply.
why would I run a blog called Need more shovels in which I argue tht the Republicans are building a fascist hell hole and then turn around and before mandating ideas and quashing free speech?
I've said openly I'm a socialist. I've long ago established a track record of liberal views and egalitarian concerns and social sonorousness. you talk a good fight I don't see you do anything to show that you actually work for the things you believe in. you the pretense of a liberal view point but you are totally sold out to the Orwellian atheism.
Of course I would not be for making blasphemy illegal becuase yu can't mandate matters of the heart. I'm not even sure it's a good idea to mandate control of hate speech.
Speaking of that Hermit do you support laws against hate speech? why isnt' that contorting freedom of speech?
Hermits just been making some valid points, and you're saying that hes simply being a bully. It sounds more like you're being someone who claims they're being bullied just to get someone else into trouble.
I don't think he's being a bully but he knows very well that I am not in favor censorship or negativing free speech.I resent him asking becuase he knows the answer. he's trying to implying something by asking.
No I don't support hate speech laws; they are too easily abused, in my opinion. Unless the speech in question is advocating or inciting violence or is demonstrably libellous (meaning it must be shown to have caused material harm.)
I think that "Innocence of Muslims" video, for example, is a detestable piece of propaganda. But no one should be killed or sent to jail over it.
This absolutely is about free speech Joe, that's the whole point of Blasphemy Day.
There are people pushing for blasphemy laws which would stifle legitimate criticisms of religious organizations. Blasphemy Day is a protest against the mistreatment of people like Sanal Edamaraku and Alexander Ann. What's being done to them in the name of protecting religious sensibilities is far worse than mere bullying.
I agree with you basically. I don't think blasphemy is constructive and doing it shows a real lack of character but you can't legislate character. I am shaming atheists over blaspheming becuase that's what you do when people make a display of their lack of character. I don't advocate any kind of laws against it.
There are people pushing for blasphemy laws which would stifle legitimate criticisms of religious organizations.
I haven't seen that. who are they--don't tell me let me guess...
Here's the background on Blasphemy Day...
http://www.centerforinquiry.net/cfe
Look at the faces of those "bullies" Joe. Think about who's side you're on.
I don't expect you to blaspheme, but you could at least sign some petitions
do you still believe this meta? that i am a bully?
if not please remove the quotes you quotemined from me, you are spinning them and i would kindly ask you to delete them, you are distorting what i said.
if you still believe any atheist is a bully or i am a bully, i would again ask that we sit down (figuratively of course) and i can explain my reasoning without turning it all into a shouting match.
i do not appreciate being lied about, since i do not believe anything you said.
i believe the internet is not as serious as you think it is, it is my opinion and built on logical grounds.
namely you can turn off the pc and walk away and never be affected by it ever again.
i find it offensive that you color my statements in a way that could make people think i don't care about victims of cyberbullying to the point of suicide. i have suffered from severe depression for most of my life and have had suicidal thoughts and even almost attempted to kill myself.
i do not believe that what you receive is cyberbullying, what you get is at most trolling, and trolling is not cyberbullying, since cyberbullying is bullying taken to the internet, and i doubt anyone on carm knows you in real life.
i find it saddening you distorted this, i hope you can understand my statements a bit better and no longer believe this, but to show you do not think i am a bully i would ask you to delete those quotes and anything attacking me.
it hurts the chance at a truly friendly debate.
First of all I don't know who you are. If I quoted a DG I don't remember. If you are Revedog from CARM I tooks the quote off the signature becuase you ask. Where are the others? what quotes?
some statements you make:
"i do not appreciate being lied about, since i do not believe anything you said."
you guys have gotten in the habit of calling anything you disagree with a lie. I have never lied about you are anyone. I didn't take quotes out of context. If you are the person I think you are what you said was outrageous. I'm, willing to overlook becuase I don't think you meant it or that understand the consequence of it. if that was Revdog's statement about "fix yourself first." If that's not who you are I don't know who you are.
i believe the internet is not as serious as you think it is, it is my opinion and built on logical grounds.
these are phony distinctions. What theists do is hurtful, the person get's to say that is the person injured not the idiot doing it. I know if I'm insulted not you.
namely you can turn off the pc and walk away and never be affected by it ever again.
why should I? I have as much of a right to on CARM as you do. maybe more becuase I've been there so long. why should i give up that area of expression just become some asshole is more vicious than I am? no offense.
"i find it offensive that you color my statements in a way that could make people think i don't care about victims of cyberbullying to the point of suicide. i have suffered from severe depression for most of my life and have had suicidal thoughts and even almost attempted to kill myself."
so hat? I've been depressed too. I take care of an adult child who is mentally ill. other people have problems we have to learn to respect each other. you want a pass. you want to be able to bullly with impunity and you get all the consideration.
"i do not believe that what you receive is cyberbullying, what you get is at most trolling, and trolling is not cyberbullying, since cyberbullying is bullying taken to the internet, and i doubt anyone on carm knows you in real life."
that is just a foolish distinction. I know when I am hurt and and installed you don't get to say that for me. the person who said "you have to fix yourself because you can whine about bullies" reasons the way you do. He think he's only one who matters.
I didn't change a single word and I reflected the context accurately you just didn't' understand consequences and you can't stand having said it now that you see it. someone is making you account for what you say.
well this was about as fruitful as teaching a fish about skydiving.
you guys have gotten in the habit of calling anything you disagree with a lie. I have never lied about you are anyone. I didn't take quotes out of context. If you are the person I think you are what you said was outrageous. I'm, willing to overlook becuase I don't think you meant it or that understand the consequence of it. if that was Revdog's statement about "fix yourself first." If that's not who you are I don't know who you are.
what guys? who are you talking about?
this is me! i don't care about any other atheists or whatever, this is 1x1, me asking you why you believe i am a bully, and clearly you still do!
you told me when i said i was leaving carm that i wasn't a bully, so you lied about it. you still do and still bash me for a straw-man of what i said.
tell me meta why would i care about something you quoted from someone if that someone wasn't me?, i am reverenddg.
reverenddg=DG
these are phony distinctions. What theists do is hurtful, the person get's to say that is the person injured not the idiot doing it. I know if I'm insulted not you.
you have no clue what i said, did you even read it? or did you just skim it and let your knee jerk? you don't even make the attempt to understand me, you just make up your own story about what i say.
in fact you chop up my reason! you do nothing but quote mine me! you act like i'm telling you to get off the internet, no i was telling you what my logic and reason for why i say what i say!
the internet doesn't affect you in real life unless you make it do so, and there are ways to block, report and take down real cyberbullying.
why should I? I have as much of a right to on CARM as you do. maybe more becuase I've been there so long. why should i give up that area of expression just become some asshole is more vicious than I am? no offense.
oh yes meta, i don't feel offended because you just called me a vicious asshole... that irony just killed another meter coming from you.
you don't have a right to carm, and your sign up date doesn't mean jack to me, stop lording it over me, honestly you just prove what i said! you take the internet, carm and your anti-atheist crusade too seriously! get a new bloody hobby, like collecting lint.
you don't seem to care to understand, only to make me a punching bag, is the only reason you wanted me here is to slam me more?
that is just a foolish distinction. I know when I am hurt and and installed you don't get to say that for me. the person who said "you have to fix yourself because you can whine about bullies" reasons the way you do. He think he's only one who matters.
then you have no idea what cyberbullying is. you still don't know what i meant when i said that do you? you just make up whatever will feed your victim complex.
here, here is another way to say it:
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"
that is matthew 7:3 NIV.
i didn't even realize till after i wrote it that i said that, someone pointed it out to me.
I didn't change a single word and I reflected the context accurately you just didn't' understand consequences and you can't stand having said it now that you see it. someone is making you account for what you say.
guess what? I GET TO DECIDE WHAT I MEAN WHEN I SAY THINGS NOT YOU!
MY WORDS MY CONTEXT, MY CHOICE OF WHAT I BELIEVE.
YOU DON'T GET TO TELL ME WHAT I BELIEVE, THINK, OR FEEL.
DON'T LECTURE ME ON BS ABOUT HOW I CAN'T TELL YOU WHEN YOU ARE OFFENDED THEN DO IT YOURSELF!
YOU HYPOCRITE! FINE YOU WANT TO SEE REAL BULLYING? I WILL GIVE YOU IT!
YOU WANT ME TO CRUSH YOUR SELF ESTEEM SO BADLY? FINE! LETS GO THEN!
here we go then! you want bullying meta? fine, i will grant your masochistic need to be attacked.
fuck you meta, you mongoloid piece of human waste.
i hope you contract AIDS and MSRA and your dick falls off.
then your whole family dies horribly in a plane crash.
you aren't a scholar you are some egotistical asshat who thinks he knows more than he does.
you suck as a historian, you are shitty theologian, a shitty debater and a shitty humanbeing.
you think you are some fucking god's gift to apologetics, but you are just some nobody on the internet who suffers from narcissistic personality disorder and judging from your inability to stop lying, a sociopath.
fuck you meta, you didn't care about a dialog, you only cared about keeping me around to bash, to puff up your ego.
if you gave a shit you wouldn't lie and say i'm not a bully then call me one again.
fuck you meta, i'm done with your fucked up ass, ban me, block me, whatever, i don't give a fuck.
sorry I made you feel persecuted. why dont' you fixing your first, before you whine about being bulled. remember that one?
that's the reamrk I took off the signature becuase you asked me to. then I ask you "where the other one you want me to take down? Instead of telling me where it is you start ranting and insulting my family and stuff like that.
I'm sorry you have emotional problems. i didn't give them to you.
I took down a quote beuase he ask me to. I ask him where the other one was he wanted me to take down and goes ballistic and says "I hope get aids."]
I'm not doing anything to get aids.
take your meds.
this is what he said. this is response to me because I ask him wher the other quote was:
"here we go then! you want bullying meta? fine, i will grant your masochistic need to be attacked.
fuck you meta, you mongoloid piece of human waste.
i hope you contract AIDS and MSRA and your dick falls off.
then your whole family dies horribly in a plane crash.
you aren't a scholar you are some egotistical asshat who thinks he knows more than he does.
you suck as a historian, you are shitty theologian, a shitty debater and a shitty humanbeing.
you think you are some fucking god's gift to apologetics, but you are just some nobody on the internet who suffers from narcissistic personality disorder and judging from your inability to stop lying, a sociopath.
fuck you meta, you didn't care about a dialog, you only cared about keeping me around to bash, to puff up your ego.
if you gave a shit you wouldn't lie and say i'm not a bully then call me one again.
fuck you meta, i'm done with your fucked up ass, ban me, block me, whatever, i don't give a fuck."
here if you have problems with reading:
this from you,"I am probalby one of the people who drove yu away but I don't really think you are a bully. I just didn't think you thought out your answer."
i thought out my answer, my answer had nothing to do with anyone else.
you lied about me not being a bully to get me on here, i am angry at your insinuations and lies.
whine about me all you want, you deserve what you get for being a liar.
your bullshit about me getting angry over your question is another lie, you are trying to create a narrative to somehow make it seem like your bullshit is justified.
i've seen where you apologize to frankenstein, yet do the same shit again.
you do that to me,you do that to everyone.
you are nothing but a pathological liar.
i'm done with this, i will no longer be posting here, it was a total waste of my time.
i'd have more productive conversations with a donkeys asshole than you meta.
you clearly have some kind of emotional problem. your reference to Frankenstein is just utter bull shit. nothing of the kind of happens. I didn't lie about you either. If I didn't reflect what you said the way you want to think you said it that's just you problem..
you are appreantly too stupid to figure out that people see things differently.
I'm not posting your other crude ramblings they are nothign but cursing and BS. this is not a pissing context. this blog is not here for you vent your adolescent emotions on.
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