When brick walls can talk back

This is from Secular Café, It's an excellent eampole of talkimg at cross [purposes. The topoic was historical Jesus. This one guy had already been talking about the evil corruption of the church as though that proves the myther theory. He did say you can't trust the church so Jesus is mad up, not the total lack of engagement,

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[QUOTE=Kookaburra Jack;624447]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metacrock automatically discrediting all evidence from anyone connected with the church in any way is not scholarship

Quote:Kookaburra Jack

The historical method itself allows for an evaluation that any given source may be forged or corrupt. When the church is regarded as an hierarchical organisation of men, it may be treated as a single source.

Metacrock
no it doesn't. charges of forgery are serious you just lob them at every passage you don't like.

Quote:Kookaburra Jack

Furthermore it is not an automatic discrediting, since it is based on the historical events in the history of the church between the 4th century and the middle ages.

Metacrock

First of all I don't think he named any as late as 4th, they were all fiom first (he named Tascitus) and second. Secondly, he named several of the sources used to argue ofr Jesus' historicity If Let him keep going I bet he will name everyone of them he

Quote:Metacrock

it is stupid it is ignorant it''s bias and it is a lie.

Quote:Kookaburra Jack

Between the 4th century and the middle ages the church organisation has been engaged in a whole Host of utterly corrupt activities. These include the inquisitions, genocides, executions, tortures, exiles, imprisonments, book burning, censorship, and literary forgery.

Metacrock: That is not cart Blanchet o assert any fool charge against any Christian idea. It has nothing to do with the issue of Jesus' historicity. None of the evidence is from latter than second century maybe some of it early third.

Quote:Kookaburra Jack

You are free to treat them as a "Divine Institute" if you wish, however as far as I am concerned the church organisation was utterly corrupt, and I have no obligation whatsoever to automatically accept any manuscript or literary evidence provenance within the archives of the church as authentic.

Metacrock: so you are just going to make up your own bull shit and treat it like fact because it's what you want. thanks for admitting what I already knew that Jesus mytherism is an ideological propaganda ploy to ruin people's faith and belittle belief it has nothing to do with evidence.

Quote:Kookaburra Jack

Do you?

Metacrock

If you want to be a good historian you do have an obligation to follow the principles of historical critical methods; why are you giving me this song and dance about the corruption of the church if you are not by that admitting that you have no interest in truth you just hate Christianity?

Quote:Kookaburra Jack

If you wish to view the Christian references in Pliny, Trajan, Tacitus, and Suetonius as genuine, that's your call. My call is that it is more likely that these references are not genuine and authentic, but have been fabricated in the middle ages by the utterly corrupt church organisation. I have listed timelines and sources. In iconic Orwellian fashion, they were motivated to control the past in order to control the present and future.

Metacrockyou do not base that upon any warrant at all. It's totally ideological.

Quote:Kookaburra Jack

We are, after all is said and done, discussing the church organisation. From the perspective of political history, this was an extremely powerful and lucrative monopoly BU$$INE$$ INDU$TRY.

Metacrock

OK that's another thing. I was a communist, a Trotskyite. there is nothing you can tell me about spotting class interest in a given text. It is totally ridiculous to base denial of Jesus' historicity upon your dislike for that church and your political ideology. One has nothing to do with the other.

Christianity began a working class movement. If Jesus existed he existed whether the workers were oppressed or5 the church was full of crap or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roo St. Gallus Quote: Originally Posted by Kookaburra Jack We are, after all is said and done, discussing the church organisation. From the perspective of political history, this was an extremely powerful and lucrative monopoly BU$$INE$$ INDU$TRY. Indeed, in my estimation, it is the very exemplar of the venal conspiracy to control thought through deception, fraud, and terror.

Metacrock that proves Jesus didn't exist. It also proves he wore blue robes instead of white. that's a little fact they don't  tell you about. he also snorted when ye laughed now how could the son or God snort?

you really have just admitted a lot.