John Loftus on the Debuncting Christianity Blog lauds a "new Atheist" radical who reveals a real Draconian agenda for dealing with Christianity. Now I don't believe that this represents even the majority of new atheism. I don't believe that all of atheism is a conspiracy or that all atheists are full of hate or any such thing. There is a hate group segment of their community, and this is surely it. That they are getting more brazen I think is a sign that they are more desperate.
This is the title of the post by Loftus
"Containment?" That has a pretty ominous ring to it. One question up front if you have to create atheists that means they aer not atheists already right? So they are advocating manipulation and doing the same kinds of things they accuse Christians of doing. What makes them any better? Well we Chrsitians don't talk about containing any group of people. What does that mean? let's see....Boghossian is Very Serious; He's a Crusader, a Radical, and I Like It!
I have written a few posts about Peter Boghossian's book, A Manual for Creating Atheists.To read other posts in review of his brilliant book click on the tag below. In this last one I want to highlight how much of a crusader he is, a radical, and how much I like it. He is dead serious. We know this from his radical remedies for the present faith virus pandemic.
In his final chapter titled "Containment Protocols" we see this clearly. He utilizes the theme of Darrel Ray's book, God Virus, The: How Religion Infects Our Lives and Culture, very effectively for this.
Since religious faith is a mind virus that can infect others in our society, then in order to help get rid of it we must get serious about containing it as we try to eradicate it.
By the way, "mind virus?" Is that a technical term? What psychiatry text book did he get that term from? Is it an actual germ. It's funny when I have argued that atheist use the concept of "meme" to accuse their opponents of being diseased they deny that it's that kind of model.
Loftus:Loftus plays the fascist card. It's need, we must set up the camps hu?
His remedies are radical, but important and needed.
1) Use the word "faith" only in a religious context. He is calling for a change in how we use language. This is something David Eller has advocated as well as myself in our books. Boghossian: "It matters what words we use. Certain words trap us into a make-believe picture of life--one that is false and misleading" (p. 211). We should not say we have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow, or other such things, where the overwhelming probabilities lead us to know without much doubt at all. You can see a list of these words in a 2009 talk I gave for the annual meeting of the Society of Biblical Literature, right here.I don't actually hear the term "faith" used that much in a religious context. Why is that any different than using "theoretical" for imaginary scenarios like possible worlds and multiverses?
2) Stigmatize faith-based claims like racist claims. He argues we should deploy the models of the civil rights and the women's rights movements. Basically it should be politically incorrect to argue something based on faith. He aptly quotes Sam Harris here: "People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of society."Here we see a truly sick mind coming into focus. Martin Luther King was a minister of Christ. By this guy's stadnards he was insane and had a mind virus. But of course he doesn't dare say that. He has the audacity and mendacity to try link atheist poison with civil rights, and belief in love and truth (Christian belief) to "racism." That is such a lie! When did we try to make atheists sit at the back of the bus? We never passed Jim Crow laws to keep atheists in the role of second class citizens. We never lynched atheists. That they want to do these things to us is ironic becuase I've always said their term "xian" is their version of the N word. They are as filled with hate for Christians as white racists were for black people. This proves it. At least this segment of the atheist community.
3) Parrhesia: Speaking truth in the face of danger. We should not sit at the back of the segregated bus, so to speak. "Be honest. Be direct. Be blunt. Be unapologetic....Don't tone it down or talk baby talk....Instead, tell people exactly what you think and why you think it. Take a punch and give a punch. Speak truth in the place of danger be a part of Team Parrhesia" (p. 214).By that frank admission they put themselves at the back of the bus. No one tried to force them there.
4) Stay informed. He even recommends reading faith peddlers like Alvin Plantinga and William Lane Craig. Boghossian is so radical he recommends against buying their books new, but rather getting them second hand, so they don't profit from us in any way.Faith peddelers like the greatest living metaphysician who was given the mantle of Charles Hartshorne and is a recognized expert in modal logic. This guy doesn't know what modal logic is.
5) Contribute. Do what you can. Use whatever talents you have in this cause. "Be active. Get involved. Volunteer. Vote." Contribute financially as well, to good atheist/skeptical organizations who are making a difference.Is he trying to say they should keep Christians out of higher education?
6) Experiment and publicize. "Develop your own strategies to fight the faith virus." Then publicize them in the appropriate medium, like books, magazines, podcasts, videos, documentaries, plays, editorials, songs, art works and so on.
7) Form academic-community partnerships. These partnerships take many forms. Partner with like-minded people to be more effective.
8) Treat faith as a public health crisis. Two words: "contain" and "eradicate." We must do this with ethical and Constitutional concerns in mind, he says. Rather, "interventions need to be designed that counter the spread" of the virus. Our "containment strategy should promote the 'value' of believing on the basis of evidence."
Now we see the goal in sight. This is where it's heading. Not merely contain as said but also elminated. "eradicated?" In what way? Does he mean just convince people with logic? But apprently they are growing desperate because we don't buy their logic so it's clear they mean something else.
9) Financially cripple purveyors of false epistemologies, especially religious institutions. Take away their tax exempt status. Hell yeah! While Boghossian isn't hopeful that can be done in America anytime soon, "Ultimately, the tax-exempt status of religious organizations must be removed."
Financially crippling is a pretty serious thing. He's really dreaming big if he thinks they are going to wield he power to change the tax code against belief in God. The 3% freinge group (in fact only a segment of that) is going to wrest the tax code from 80% of the population? In fact 90% believe in God.
10) Create skeptical (atheist) children. He makes no apologies for this bold suggestion, saying, "It may seem odd: raising a child so she doesn't hold preposterous metaphysical beliefs. Strange indeed, but also vital." What he means is that "it is important to develop within our children the "attitudinal disposition to be skeptical."They so contorting about what they allow to go on inside other people's minds. Irony of Ironies, O IR_ON_Y! the so called "free thinkers" not so free are they? They actually think they have the right to decide what you can believe and what your child is permitted to believe. They want to determine matters of philosophy and questions about reality and construct your right to think about reality. You would think these intellectually superior all knowing self appointed intellectuals would know something about history.
This is the kicker!
11) Finally, remove the religious exemption for delusion from the 'Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders' (DSM). He says, "There is perhaps no greater contribution one could make to contain and perhaps even cure faith than removing the exemption that prohibits classifying religious delusions as mental illness." For the reasons why he makes this statement you'll have to read them yourselves. At the very least, faith should be listed as a cognitive bias everywhere cognitive biases are listed.
He is actually saying that he wants belief in God to classified as an actual mental illness! It's not enough to just put of society agaisnt belief we have to close off the possibility of anyone wondering about it ever again by saying it's insane. That's so stupid! So narrow minded. That's far more narrow minded than racist garbage or anything a mad dog cone head ever thought of short of lynching. Why? Because it closes off all possibility of ever thinking for oneself again. All they have to do is declair anything you think as pre condition for belief. "People who want lower taxes tended to believe in God." So wanting lower taxes is a sign that yu might be wondering if there could be a God, which would mean yu are insane. In fact anyone who votes against the atheist candidate has to be thinking about belief in God so voting against their agenda is s a sure sign of mental illness.
Not understanding what forces of fascism and control are being unleashed here is just stupidity. Do we stop with Christianity or all beilef? Or what pantheism? Is that a danger becuase it might lead to theism? The slipper slope potential is enormous. Who they hell do they think they are? What would give them the right to determine what people can wonder about? What could possibly give the arrogance to think they are so certain of their nonsense that is deserves to be enshrined as the definition of sanity?
This DSM "Bible" of psychiatry has said that S/M is not mental illness and has removed it from that definition.
on Wiki
In 1994, the American Psychiatric Association responded by modifying the denotative criteria defining “sadism” and “masochism” in the fourth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM IV); thus, consensual sadomasochistic behavior no longer is considered a sexual disorder. Furthermore, in the textual revision of the DSM-IV TR (2000), sadomasochistic behavior is a sexual and mental disorder if the patient “has acted on these urges with a non-consenting person” and if “the urges, sexual fantasies, or behaviors cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty”.[9][10] Elsewhere, in 1995, Denmark became the first country to delete “sadomasochism” from its medical disorders system of classification.[11]
This clown is actually saying that S/m is more normal and healthy than belief in God? "The "Janus Report on Sexual Behavior," one of the premiere academic surveys of sex practices, found in 1993 that 14 percent of men and 11 percent of women have had some sexual experience with sadomasochism." (ABC News). While 90% of Americans believe in God. That's an appeal to popularity but it does mean its too common to be thought of as a mental probelm. This guy has no data he has no backing form any psychiatric organization. Clinicians are more likely now to say that religious experience is good for you. The Allman study showed that half the clinicians have religious experience themselves and more than that say it helps their patients get better.
This lunatic is willing to alter the work of psychiatric authority just becuase he loses arguments about philosophy to theists! That should be the definition of mentally ill!
Dawkins says:
As an urgently needed counter to this tried-and-true tradition of religious evangelism, A Manual for Creating Atheists offers the first-ever guide not for talking people into faith--but for talking them out of it.
On CARM the idiot Deist who has been quoted here many times, chimes in to say he's "100%" in agreement.
I agree 100% with his position. If anyone has read my posts here, they will see that I don't beat around the bush or "play nice" with the Christians. They think they should get a pass, and this thinking is furthered by society doing exactly that. Danny of America talks about scoffers and scoffing as if that's a bad thing. His intent is to stigmatize non believers and ward off attacks on foolish beliefs by saying anyone who would challenge warped beliefs are scoffers.
For Danny and others, who want to use the word scoffer, have at it. I'm proud to wear that title, and I wear it with honor. I will no more discuss a resurrection as if it actually happened than I would a claim that Jesus is orbiting the Halle Bopp comet. IO refuse to give the Christians an inch on their contentions that homosexuality is a choice, and will continue to scoff at their ignorance on this topic. I will not give them the latitude of trying to contend that Jesus abolished OT law, when it clearly says he did NOT.
We should not continue to let them get away with their chicanery, double speak, obfuscation and crazy claims. They are ruinous to society. Let them have God. Let them win that argument, but never, ever, ever let them contend a man rose from the dead while zombies rose from their graves, and that a personal God will do stuff for them cause they believe, and non believers go to hell. These are crazy time thoughts that dumb down humans, and are unhealthy for society. The reason they have been able to get away with it for long is that society didn't scoff them.
Not let them "get away with it?" With what? Having their own ideas? Thinking for themselves? These guys said I was such a lunatic for saying that atheism was a movement. they aer talking about eradicating belief (or is it the believers too?) and controlling what people are allowed to believe, but I was just peranoid think they have a movement!
Deist is so tired losing arguments he's ready to try to fascism to force people to see things his way. He's so sure he's right he thinks he has the right to suspend free thought, but when we are so sure we are right that makes us insane.
What's more inane is this guy calls himself "Deist" he claims to believe in God in some sense, but then he says supports "100%" making belief in God a definition of mentally ill.
I don't think there is any immediate danger. I don't think these guys could get a majority of people to follow them to a free breakfast. They aer a tiny minority it's much more likely that society is in danger from the religoius right lunatics who have the ear of the public and make up a sizable faction. In fact I wish we could lock that group in a room, see who comes out.Yet the Church should be aware of what these guys are doing. After all if they were so secrative about having a movement what is this guy not telling us about his plans?
This represents another stage in Atheists shutting down dialogue. They will create hostilities and close off the ability to have a dialogue and then blame theists for not being forthcoming or able to support their position. The best thing we can do now to counter this stuff is to keep dialogue going.
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