Sunday, May 26, 2013

Stupid atheist tricks! no.897. Turning beautiful answer into a curse

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On a discussion on CARM (where else) I write about my own testimony which happened to come up. at one point someone I knew who was close to me was 'freaking out' on a bad acid trip. I was real upset and didn't know what to do. he refused to  let me call medical help or to go to a hospital. I didn't know what else to do so I thought I hope my parents are right and Jesus is real. I said "if you are really there," I said "Jesus the way my parents believe in, "if you are really there please stop him." He stopped. he wound down and went to sleep. that got my attention. that's not all there was to my conversion but that got my attention. Read about it here. I wasn't just telling this to impress and covert. It fit into a larger point. Then the dopy atheist decides this is a bad thing. At first he tried to make into a conceitedness. writ it off. then he tries to turn into a curse.

 Originally Posted by Fanghur View Post
That would be a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. So your brother calmed down, so what? Sometimes it happens. It proves nothing. Did Jesus appear bodily and place a hand over your brother's face or cradle him in his arms and transfer some kind of visible energy into him or something? Did you get this experience on film so that we can examine it?
Meta: that's like saying when you say "hey!" the other looks around and says "what?" you should just say to yourself, he's not answering me, it's just a coincidence that he just happened to look when I said that to him." That's what you are saying. we should never undertand any event as a direct response to prayer regardless of how improbable it is. He had been rampaging and writhing and screaming and he was throwing things and he said all sorts of things to indicate he was in a bad way he was not stopping he showed no sign of letting down. I have no reason to assume it was a coincidence the only reason one would think that is if on was biased against belief that there is a God who would answer.

Originally Posted by Fanghur View Post
No, that is not what I am saying, and that is not a valid comparison in the least. If you call to a person across the room, you can see that you're there and they can see that you're there. Therefore it is entirely reasonable to assume that they are responding to you. Your analogy is totally invalid.

when I call out and say If you are really do X and X is done immediately I should conclude the same thing.

Yes, and a god who apparently doesn't give two hoots about helping him until you asked.

you have no proof that God doesn't' care until you ask, that's just ingratitude. Intsead of saying "thanks' you say "what took you so long?"
that is irrational. To try and turn into a indictment of God's compassion because he wait utni we called. Of course it crosses his mind if it was to show me he's there than waiting until I call would be the kindest thing because how else would I know he did it. Of course then we start the reduction process to slippery slope and argue why don't God hold a press conference and let us all in on the gag.

It must take a real burned out fool to think this way.

getting back to the major discussion he adds:

And this is where you say our morals come from? And you are absolutely wrong. You are making an extraordinary claim. 
slipper slope. without knowing anything about it you are to build it not some horrendous dopy assumption about God, or put in a bad light instead of building it as a good motive. What's the logic there? the basis of the Good answered my pleas so i'm going t turn into a reaosn not to believe? how assign!
Here's where he really starts going over the edge.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.By far the simplest explanation is coincidence; Occam's Razor, the simplest explanation is typically best. And I have extremely good reasons to be biased against such a thing, because what about the millions of people every day who DON'T get helped by this magical anthropomorphic immortal of yours, hmm?
I was there an you weren't. It's obviously extraordinary. who wouldn't want God when you call? what kind of fool would seek to turn that into a bad thing?
So now he's not only going to complain about God's timing but he's actually going to use as an argument against the existence of God. I'm supposed to think God must not be there because it's a big enough miracle. I think it's pretty extraordinary and he's jealous. God did something for me everyone would like, he answered when I called. who would not want that. This guy takes it as a sign god doesn't care and complained it's not proof enough. I said he has a phobia about accepting God. he says:

No, it is not a phobia.

o come off it. who are you trying kid? one of the most beautiful things in any one's life hapepned to me and you tryign to spit it as a curse just because you are jelogus is that? or you hate God or that ever the hell your problem is. no one in their right mind would try to turn that into a reason not to bleieve.

o yes God answered me when I called in respiration I guess that proves he doesn't exist! only a fool would say that!

This speaks volumes about the way atheists think. nothing can ever be good enough, you have to doubt everything no matter how amazing it is.Always think negative about God at all costs, learn to always see the dark of every situation. the Glass is not only half empty but what's there isn't worth drinking anyway.


JBsptfn said...

What is wrong with these people? I don't get them.

You are right: Atheism is all about being cynical. It has nothing to do with truth.

Metacrock said...

Right on. I wonder how many of them even conceptually believe in truth. They get so in the habit of cynicism they can't think other wise. Joseph Campbell said "cynicism is confused with insight by the cowardly mind."

Metacrock said...

Right on. I wonder how many of them even conceptually believe in truth. They get so in the habit of cynicism they can't think other wise. Joseph Campbell said "cynicism is confused with insight by the cowardly mind."

Andrew Jennings said...

Way to completely miss the point of everything I said, completely misrepresent me, and lie outright. That is very mature of you, Metacrock, really. Isn't lying supposed to be a sin?

Metacrock said...

oK Fang, I guess your name is Andy, I'll give you a change to explain what I'm lying about and how I distorted what you said. go on and give it. I don't know why you didn't before.

Andrew Jennings said...

And I will gladly do so, Metacrock, and yes, this is Fanghur. I never said anything other than that I was unconvinced that your brother's supposed 'come down' experience, assuming that it actually did occur as you describe, which I'm sure you can understand that given that you are just some person that I'm conversing with online, I have sound reason to be skeptical if nothing else, had anything to do with the supernatural. That's it.

I most definitely did not say anything remotely suggesting that I thought that the fact that your brother allegedly got better was some kind of 'curse', as you accused me of doing. And from what little I know of you, I don't believe for a second that you could have so greatly misunderstood what I wrote as to come to such a false conclusion. I am not buying that.

I am fully willing to accept that you believe that what you say is true for the sake of discussion. But whether it actually is true is something that I am absolutely not justified in believing simply because you assert it.

That is all I was trying to say in this discussion, and yet you made me out to be some kind of moron. I don't appreciate that, Metacrock. CARM's VP is obviously indoctrinated to the point of perversity, seeing as she banned me until tomorrow for being honest, but I would have thought that you at least could have had the intellectual honesty to at the very least describe our exchange honestly. And that is my rant for today.

Metacrock said...

Ok first of all you need to learn something. There's a dichotomy called "denotation--connotation." The denotation of word is it's literal meaning, the connotation is what the word implies. no you didn't literally say "it's a curse." the issue of believing about my experience is not important. I don't expect you to just accept it.

the point is you repeatedly tried to turn the allegation of God answering my plea into an indictment of God's concern. As though becuase I had to ask that proves he doesn't care. that's what is so outrageous about it.

do you undersatnd? It's like nothing could ever be good enough for you. That implication is clearly there in your words. you can't get around it. you are actually talking us off the real subject,which I talk about, to a fake subject which I didn't bring up. I never complained about you not believing my story.

Andrew Jennings said...

And it was a completely valid point for me to make. If I saw someone in a dire condition and it was within my power to help them, I wouldn't wait until they asked for help. I would do it whether they asked or not, and I would consider any being who didn't help when it was within their power to be a morally inferior.

There were no implications. I pointed out a fatal flaw in your description of your god as being morally perfect (at least I think it was you who said that in a separate thread), and you just brushed it aside as if it were unimportant. And that really ticks me off, especially when start slandering me on your blog for something I didn't even say or even imply.

Metacrock said...

It is utterly unwise to assume that God is bad becuase waits to help you. God KNOWS BEST! if he waits it becuase he knows that's best! don't try to play God. you don't know! you can't make little analogies assume that our puny little human understanding is as good as God's.

It's also fallacious to assume that God is not helping us every minute. for you know the reaosn you haven't been killed yet is because is keeping it from happening giving you ever extra minute to repent. God put me in your life so you can know the turth and repent and you don't want to listen. It's not arrogant becuase it's true of every Christian you know.

We don't know what's going on. WE don' know what the stakes are or what the "cards hold" so to speak for the future. God does. So you just have to trust! don't trust men don't trust preachers and churches, trust God.

We can't draw analogies between our own understanding and God's. I assume that God manages the circumstances of our lives to give us the optimum opportunity to seek the turth, we have to choose to listen.

how about atheists on carm who refuse to read my articles and refuse to click on links believers provide. they are just turning their noses up at the circumstances God has arranged to bring them along.

Metacrock said...

what you were saying was truly unwise because you made it seem that the actual fact of having to call out to God for help was the indication that God is bad. That's uttterly foolish. We sometimes will only seek the truth and seek God when thing shit rock bottom.

If you don't want to know God and you refuse to listen and seek then you are saying "Ok let me be open the possibilities of accident and fate." You are saying "God go away and don't help me."

there are some things that are more improtant than physical safety.