Originally Posted by Metacrock View Post
that's just rationalization. I didn't experience myself I experienced something way beyond me. Me and millions of others and it's not indifferent.


HRG:

There is no objective evidence that you did not just experience an alternative state of consciousness.

Meta:
you are speaking drivel. that's a term with very little real stable meaning. Assuming you mean some irrational blick that has no objective content then such a state cannot be transformational and therefore mystical experience is proved by hundreds studies not to be a "mere alternative state." That's a chimera. The concepts of the same reality. you can't decide them up they are conceptualizing the same thing. the experiences are proved to the same.

HRG:
By what objective measuring device ? And the interpretations of this kind of experience are certainly different.

Meta:
get it through your head right now, stop your childish prattle and face the facts: ALL THE WAY.M SCALE IS OBJECTIVE IT IS AN OBJECTIVE MEASUREMENT. I'VE TOLD YOU THIS TIME AND TIME AGAIN THERE'S NO WAY IT CAN BE AN ACCENT. IT'S GOT CROSS CULTURAL VERIFICATION IN DOZEN CULTURES. THE FINDINGS ARE CONSISTENT.

It passes the rational test of being an objective replicable representative means of measuring an experience for matching criteria pertaining to that experience.

(due to the "M scale" which is a means of testing mystical experience)

that does not make it proof. that is begging the question.

HRG
OK. I'll spell it out slowly for you:
1. If the MV concept is instantiated in reality, then our local universe is a part of the MV (by definition).
2. Our local universe makes life possible (observation)


I'LL SPELL IT OUT FOR YOU! You can't prove that without circular reasoning.

you are using the assertion that we are part of it to prove that it exists based upon data form us. if we are only the universe there is then we are not part of it and you have not proved anything. YOU ARE TRYING TO USE THE THING IN QUESTION TO PROVE THE QUESTION AND ITS CIRCULAR REASONING!!!!

OF COURSE THAT'S THE DEFINITION OF CIRCULAR.




HRG:
Conclusion:
If the MV concept is instantiated in reality, then part of the MV makes life possible.

Meta
YOU HAVE NO EMPIRICAL PROOF THAT IT IS. SO YOU CAN'T CLAIM US AS EMPIRICAL PROOF BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW THAT WE ARE PART OF IT.