Here's a great example from CARM of how the atheist ideology and brain washing function to produce seamless team work in using fallacious reasoning and emotional blackmail. Notice how the atheist arguemnt fit together they say the same stuff without having to explain to each other the nature of a battle plan. This is second naturer to them becuase they've learned to think this way thorugh those long windeed sessions of agreeing with mocking and rieicle.
The objective they are going for here is to further the stereotype that people who believe God will heal people are insane nut cases who always wind up hurting people. In order to make this point they are going to use one example, that's all they ever document. they will assert that it represents many cases and they will not actually say it but they strongly imply this is the logical conclusion that results from prayer.
A certain poster on CARM (DARKLADY) who every single day of the world comes out with some tear jerking horror story about how evil God is, how cruel the God fo the bible the Bible is a big pile of crap. I finally faced them down with liberal theology to stop the hysteria over the OT so she shifts to modern examples. The title is "So pray for the sick and this is what happens" as though it happens all the time. This is always the result. It's documented in NY "the Daily News.Thursday, September 20, 2012. A boy in Oregon died in agony because his parents didn't believe in modern medicine. The couple were part of a group called General Assembly and Church of the First Born, This group may be a Pentecostal offshoot it's clearly considered a cult. There are sites warning about it.. It's a little over 100 churches in 20 states. Yet Darklady wants us to think this is the typical result of belief in prayer. She quotes several passages from the NT claiming that God will answer prayer:
Mark 9:29 And he said to them, “This kind cannot be driven out by anything but prayer.”
Mark 11:24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.
John 14:13-14 Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it
then adds petulantly:
"the bible lies"
The implication is clearly that if you bleieve the Bible this is what will happen to you. her atheist comrades don't mis a beat in taking up the call:
My first question: did the family abandon their faith as a result of this? Or did they go with "god must have had a purpose, and he's in heaven now, anyway" and dig themselves even deeper?
They should be prosecuted - he's a minor, and they're idiots (which isn't illegal, I know, but it bloody well should be).
Disgusting, absolutely disgusting! Having a son myself i dont know how anyone in this day and age can see their own child in agony and not seek professional medical care.Those sentiments of reproach are to be expected, even seconded. Then they don't waste any time getting to the point:
If they have not abandoned their faith after this then they should not be allowed to have anymore children!
Even more disturbing to me is what is also in the article:now Christians are all Criminals using faith healing to commit crimes.
"In Oregon, faith-based healing isn’t a defense against manslaughter charges. The District Attorney’s office is working with churches to explain the law."
This tells me that there are states or regions in America where faith-based healing IS a defense against manslaughter, WTF?
Wait for it they start implying that this happens a lot.
It is in fact the theists, especially Christians like the boy's parents, who must take the position thhat God has a plan, and that the boy's death though unfortunate is according to God's plan. The problem from a humanitarian perspective, regardless of your faith or lack of it, is that children need to be protected from parents that would harm them, even if the harm caused is due to fringe religious beliefs.
by the end of the thread Darklady has it worked out to a little formulation:
Originally Posted by darklady
my emphasis. That's quite an endorsement for his objectivity hu? But atheists aren't a movement or anything. they are not a hate group now. they just want to wipe Christianity off the planet becuase they equate it with disease. That's at least that one guy (he's not the sharpest tool they have I'll grant you that I'm sure he doesn't speak for them all).
These people take the bible literally. They really are the honest ones. We see the result of believing the bible. 99.9% of Christians don't really believe the bible, and as Howard Homes said (where is he) are liars. They don't believe the bible because they take their dying and sick to hospitals and hope that HUMANS will heal them. Then, they have the unmitigated gall to say God worked through the doctor to cure their loved one, while the guy in the bed next to them had a prayer vigil and died a young man. Sick, sick thinking and humans are infected with this mental virus that I want wiped off the planet. That's why I post here.
Originally Posted by JRT
Notice how he tries to work up cognitive dissonance. To produce a sense of shame. "why do you use medicine if you believe in prayer?" Why do they want us to stop praying? I Gee I wonder!
Such shotty reasoning. First of all he has no evidence of any kind that 99% don't believe the Bible. he's assuming so becuase he makes the idiotic assumption that if they believed the bible they would avoid modern medicine. of cousre there is no passage that says don't use medicine. No indications that most Christians understand the bible that way. No indication Luke gave up being a physician.
Look how seamlessly they take up the innuendo and imply the guilt by association without having to say to each other "let's do it this way." they just know becuase it's the natural outgrowth of the ideology then have indoctrinated with.
A ridiculous and shameful display of the ind of pandering and emotional blackmail and fallacious reasoning that I associate with the right wing and the kkk .
The argument that God will guide the surgeon's skill or help the medicine work is a valid concept. That is not a matter of doubting the bible.
all of this is the result of the atheist straw man. We see at work here the atheist straw man to insist upon the most extreme most absurd cultist understanding o the most strident undies as quintessential Christianity.
argument from sign
guilt by association
straw man arguments.