Tuesday, August 24, 2010

atheist Stupidity example no. 187,999: literal thinking about heaven

On CARM there's a thread where someone asked where heaven is. This is followed by a really childish exchange where Christians say things like "it's up" and atheist say "how far?"
"way far"
"where?"
Of course the implication is "why can't we see it?" If we can't see something then it must not exist. I put out the speculation that doesn't have to be a place at all, it can be a non spatial reality like the platonic forms, but of course they didn't even comment (what they  know the Platonic forms could be writ large on the bum of a fly).

One of them named "drugstar" (I guess that's a rock star without the music) says:


"And he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length, and the breadth, and the height of it are equal" (\reference{Revelation 21:16}{Revelation 21:16}). Twelve thousand furlongs, 7,920,000 feet which being cubed, 496,793,088,000,000,000,000 cubic feet. Half of this we will reserve for the throne of God and the court of heaven, and half of the balance for streets, leaving a remainder of 124,198,272,000,000,000,000 cubic feet. Divide this by 4,096, the cubical feet in a room sixteen feet square, and there will be 30,321,843,750,000,000 rooms. We will now suppose that the world always did and always will contain 990,000,000,000,000 inhabitants, an that a generation lasts for 331/3 years, making in all 2,970,000,000 every century, and that the world will stand 100,000 years or 1,000 centuries, making in all 2,910,000,000,000 inhabitants. Then suppose there were one hundred worlds equal to this in number of inhabitants and duration of years, making a total of 297,000,000,000,000 persons, and there would be more than a hundred rooms sixteen feet square for each person.
By William Moses Tidwell, "Effective Illustrations."

He's trying to say there's this passage in the bible that measures heaven so it must be a literal place. But of cousre this is again their ignorance. The Jews had a lot of mystical writings that used extremely complex metaphors and all of those measurements have symbolic meaning.

since no one bothethered to comment on my post. I'll ask the atheits a question. why does heaven have to be in a physical place? If after life is spiritual or it if it's mental (sprit = mind) why does it have to located in a given spactial sector? why can't it be a mental reality like the realm of the platonic fomrs?

come to that why can't it just be in an other dimension like any parallel universe in the multiverse?

another question

why do you have to think so literally that you have to have it in a speicific place, and telescopes can't see it then it must not exist. cant' you see how silly, childish, regessive, that is?

2 comments:

Brap Gronk said...

"why can't it [heaven] be a mental reality like the realm of the platonic fomrs?"

Heaven actually is a mental reality in the sense that it only exists in some people's minds. After a person dies, heaven ceases to exist in that person's mind because that person's mind ceases to exist after their brain ceases to function.

"why can't it just be in an other dimension like any parallel universe in the multiverse?"

It could be in another dimension like a parallel universe, but there is no evidence that it is.

"Why do you have to think so literally that you have to have it in a speicific place, and telescopes can't see it then it must not exist. cant' you see how silly, childish, regessive, that is?"

No, it doesn't seem silly or childish to an atheist to ask where something is that so many people believe exists. If something isn't observable then it could be detectable. If something isn't observable or detectable, then it's theoretical. If it's theoretical, like heaven, it doesn't seem silly to ask what evidence there is to support the theory of its existence.

Metacrock said...

"why can't it [heaven] be a mental reality like the realm of the platonic fomrs?"

Heaven actually is a mental reality in the sense that it only exists in some people's minds. After a person dies, heaven ceases to exist in that person's mind because that person's mind ceases to exist after their brain ceases to function.

and you have actually tired this a number of times and know for a fact right?

"why can't it just be in an other dimension like any parallel universe in the multiverse?"

It could be in another dimension like a parallel universe, but there is no evidence that it is.


it's part of package of belief in God. there is a lot of evidence that God is real, so therefore, heaven is real becuase God tell sof heaven.

"Why do you have to think so literally that you have to have it in a speicific place, and telescopes can't see it then it must not exist. cant' you see how silly, childish, regessive, that is?"

No, it doesn't seem silly or childish to an atheist to ask where something is that so many people believe exists. If something isn't observable then it could be detectable. If something isn't observable or detectable, then it's theoretical. If it's theoretical, like heaven, it doesn't seem silly to ask what evidence there is to support the theory of its existence.


It should be obvious, and besides I explained it and they just ignore my explanations. I think it's the case that they cant' think abstractly so they don't' understand the answer. They can only literally.

People who can only think literally are not very bright.

that's literally true!