More Hate Group Atheism still there

 Valenkhai

Of course, Christians have responded by saying that this person is not a "true" or "real" Christian.  How very convenient for them, and who knows?  They might actually be right.

Meta:

you are just in the process of forming the same special pleading by saying the commies aren't the kind of atheist you are or that they had other concerns that your kind of atheist doesn't have. but you want to be able to make the same unqualified simplistic diatribe against Christians that you will allow others to make about atheists.

can't you see that posting this started it. you are blind?

Valenkhai

The thing is, from my perspective, I can't make the distinction between a "true" Christian and a "fake" on because I don't think that Christianity itself is true. 

Meta:

is that really the only kind of distinction you can think of here? We have an example of a person from a third world country, primitive view point no real education and ancient primitive tribal beliefs you are going to compare that to the people who teach at Southern Methodist and Harvard and Yale divinity school?

Valenkhai

If someone says that they believe that God became human in Jesus Christ, was crucified to pay for the sins of the world and then rose from the dead and ascended into heaven, I have to take them at their world and call them a Christian if they so label themselves.  If that person does things that are obviously outside orthodox (or at least modern interpretations of orthodox) Christianity, I can recognize that, but it doesn't really matter.  Not one of you follows your religion perfectly.  That fact that you are "closer" to orthodox than someone else or that you think you fall into some sort of "close enough" version of your Christianity while they fall outside into some "not true believer" category is really not relevant to me.

Metaso shallow and simplistic. how can you not lie awake at night in shame over the simplistic nature of your thinking? You are saying if someone believes the core of what Evangelicals say is the Gospel then they can't be effected by any other form of social training or conditioning or socialization or brain washing. It's just that Chrsitian thing and nothing else? That's what is so simpistic and silly. your implication is that beileving that makes you like this, into a murderer:

(1) you can't show me how believing that makes you a murderer.

(2) you assume there can't be any other basis for social behavior but that belief, that is totally irrational. The African cultures in that part of the continent have a hsitory of fearing witchcraft. why are not you not slandering African religion?


Valenkhai

I know that most interpretations of Christianity look down on the whole witch hunting thing, and that they can back that up with scriptures and theology.

Meta:
you know that but you are going to generalize anyway, but you don't want me to that's it right?
you are basically contradicting yourself. you assume that Christian bleief will make you murder and yet you agree that most Christians don't' hunt witches I presume you know most Christians don't want to murder children right? Did you not see the document I posted that said Catholics are fighting it?

The only thing I see atheists doing is using it to slander Christians.

Originally Posted by Valekhai

Cool. Could you give me a hypothetical situation to show how someone can get from a position of "I don't believe in gods" to a position where they feel it is necessary to commit mass murder? In the interest of fairness, I'll give a hypothetical to demonstrate how someone can go from basic Christian beliefs to burning witches.

Meta

what you are leaving out is the fact that witch burning in the West was stopped by Christians! it was primarily Christian thinkers i the enlightenment who stopped the practice in Europe. you wan tot label all Chrsitians in the same way, you want to put out that all Christians would burn witches. you have no facts, you have not stats. European pagans burned witches. all cultures in the world have had periods of fear of witch craft.
The atheists under Stalin thought they were right and that anyone supporting Christianity was an obstructionist who was holding up the revolution.

Valenkhai

Say there's a person living in Africa who has grown up with local superstitions, including believing in witches. Eventually this person meets Christian missionaries who tell him the story of the Gospels.

 Meta

here's another level of your naivete. it's not missionaries who take the Gospel to Africa. It has been generically African since the time Christ. The part of Africa where they took the slave trade from was Christian and had Christians in it.

But it has also had indigenous African religion which has always ben hysterically afraid of Witches.

Valenkhai

The person learns that the world and everything in it was created by the one true God, that mankind sinned against God, and the Jesus the Son of God, came to Earth and performed miracles, was crucified to atone for mankind's sin, rose from the dead, and ascended into heaven. The person also learns that the Bible is God's word. The person believes all of this, repents for his sins, and becomes baptized.

 Meta:

you are trying to stick Christianity with being a causal agent in oppressive acts because you don' t like it's doctrine and so you are trying to hand the problem so the doctrine you don't like. But you don't have any data to support you in doing this. That's the kind of thing that could be learned through polls and surveys. Yet you have no data to back it up at all. My stuff against Zuckerman's lies offers concrete data agaisnt the hypothesis.

not all Christians would say that. if you knew even a tiny bit about Christianity beyond the simplistic garage your atheist brain washers have told you you would know that that is a stereotype and exaggeration and it doe not fit most Christians.

Valenkhai

This person is by no means a theology scholar, but he has gone through all of the basic qualifications to say that he a believer, that he is "saved."
Now, lets also say that this person receives a Bible printed in his own language. He begins to read it and comes across Deuteronomy 18, which supports his previous belief that witches are real. He also comes across Exodus 22:18 that states "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Believing that the Bible is the Word of God, this person concludes that it is morally correct to kill witches.

what does that mean in a 3d world country with no real education (not to say that 3d word has no real education but it just depends) and where they might have a Christianity mixed up with native ideas.

Now, you can argue that if this person continued reading the New Testament and had a better understanding of the scriptures and their context, the fact remains that a Christian, using nothing except basic Christian concepts and verses from the Bible, can indeed think that killing witches is acceptable, even commanded. To say that Christianity provides no support for those actions is false.

Meta

how many overall have been killed by the witch hunters? No where near 100 million right? right.NOWHERE NEAR THAT MANY!

you are also trying to say that any exposure to Chrsitain thinking will lead to this kind of thing even though the wrong understanding? Why don't the majoity of Chrsitians kill children?




here's what they wound up saying:

Originally Posted by souper genyus

I know a Dutch person that uses that phrase a lot. Is that a popular saying over there?

I'll also advise Meta to build a bridge and get over it.

 two different one's said that.