An atheits on CARM, Vladimir, brings up another obvious point that he can't get past. In so doing demonstrates The ratoinailzation of the atheist mind.
Gen. 3:16 To the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you."
Taking the straight forward reading of Genesis 3:16 we find that God himself causes pain in women during the childbirth.
Often, Christians say that sin the corruption of God's perfect order in nature caused disorder and suffering and death, yet, Gen. 3:16 clearly says that it is God who is authoring the suffering.
Notice, God does not say that either personal sin or the sin of Adam and Eve are the case of blindness or other ailments. We are clearly told that God, or the LORD is the case or the maker of all of this.Meta:
So, why do Christians keep saying that sin is the cause of all suffering?
That's like saying the law causes people to go to jail. It's not the crime they did it's the evil stupid law that makes them go that's to blame. Reduce the crime rate, make it all legal.
To this is added
Because a god that causes suffering wouldn't be omnibenevolent, and that just won't do.Big Thinker:
I think you might be surprised at how many Christians will readily acknowledge that YHWH does, in fact, cause suffering (but there's always the "greater good" trump card).
And if God is the creator of everything, doesn't that include sin and the conditions/environment in which sin exists?
Christianity is irrational.
Originally Posted by rossum
yes according to that slacker Buddha! He could have been doing what Sam Harris is doing but NoooOOOOooo he had to sit under his little bo tree and be enlightened.
It's certainly true that sin did not magically entered creation outside of God thinking it and allowing it. And it's also certainly true that man did not magically enter creation outside of God thinking and allowing it. He spoke it all into existence. And, He from the very beginning called man to Himself but man from the very beginning chose not to draw near to Him. Even so, while we were (and still are) great sinners with evil intentions constantly in our hearts, He saves man and still calls the likes of us to Himself, bearing man's crushing sin onto His Son. So my understanding is that it is not sin that is the cause of suffering, nor is it the Lord, but it is man himself, it's our nature. This is why Jesus told nicodemus that unless man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God, not simply just remove sin.Meta:
blaming your parents for your mistakes. "Hey I didn't ask to be born."(EJM Is a believer I'm just adding my 2 cents)
Vladimir comes out with this gem:
Sounds like God is not following his own standard.
It's wrong for humans to kill others for merely working on a Saturday, but not for God.
It's wrong for humans to torture other humans, but not for God.
Why the double standard?
He and all the atheists above want God to through away his standards. They want him to say "O sin is unimportant. Just do you whatever you feel like doing." Making rules and laws is crazy irrational. Now he wants to honor what he says when it helps him. H and every other atheist have been whining through this whole thread about how God is so stupid to stick to his standards. now He want him to keep them because it helps him. Vladimir and his comrades are totally inconsistent. They just want you want. you don't about truth or what's improtant or is effected by your little sin.
God decides what is sinful, since sin is disobeying God's laws, and He makes His laws at His whim. God created Hell, and decides who goes there based on sin. God is responsible for everything that happens, the evil and the good. God is therefore responsible for all sin.God is not a man. God killing people and us killing are two totally different things. The danger is when people decide their the hand of God and they kill thinking they are bringing about God's will. If God does something that is not man doing it. God is God and he has a right to act. God is consistent wit himself because he's not man. These fools who just want their wa at all cost are willing to hurt anyone in any sense just to get what they want then their diseased minds seek to judge the very creator of the universe.
This guy wants to lead the revolution against God:
God is a dictator in every sense of the word.
We're all quick to condemn human dictators, but people "put up" with God.
I for one, did not vote God in the cosmic elections.
That says it all, they refuse to let God be God. They insist upon dragging God down to the level of a man. that's on ef the major reasons for the big man in the sky mentality. they just see God as magnified humanity. If a human being tired to userp that kind of ultimate power over people I'm betting this guy would accept him if he thought it would get him the things he wants. But he wont accept the only true and rightful power in the universe.
This guy's post says it all. They raving against the father figure against authroity and against government and all the rationalizations they can make they are all really aimed at escaping duty to God and seeking their own way. That is the definition of sin. It's not about some intellectual exorcize where they seek to liberate humanity form superstition and oppression. It's about hanging on to sin.
They don't want the rational God. When I try to read them with liberal ideas about God as a principle or God as Being itslf. that's stupid. that' s inane. God can only be a big man in the sky. The big man in the sky has to be an evil dictator that they want to overthrow. If he were a totally harmless little pussycat of a grand father god who made no demands on anyone they would ignore him completely. They have to be locked in a struggle against the super ego figure.They can't accept that God could have ratioanl standards. they would rather have the big bogey man of their teenage rebellion to fight against.