Thursday, February 11, 2010

examples of Atheist Hate

These are exampls of stage 3, gathering to mock the target (FBI 12 step development of hate group ID).

Photobucket


Photobucket

There are many more that little insubstantial theists can drop on message boards all over the net. Why are these act of hate? First of all there is a major probelm with re-describing. In his brilliant novel 1984 George Orwell brings out the basic brutality of re-describing another person's world view or bleief system. That in itself is wrong ethically and its dishonest, but to do it in such a way as to mock and deride their beliefs while passing it off as what they really believe is nothing more than hate, and hat demonstrates the Orwellian nightmare in the atheist movement.

Someone runs an industry selling these things to someone, either used as clip art or bought by those who use them directly, they are sources of money at some point. Their only purpose is to mock and ridicule becuase if the people making them cared enough to describe Christian belief Accurately they would find out what Christians really belief and be sensitive enough to sort out the difference between illogical and cruelty.

Saying that Christian belief is illogical is not hate, that's to be expected and it's the prerogative of those who do not believe in Christian beliefs. But to purposely misrepresent them, to twist them in such a way as to cause ridicule and then pretend that's a frank and honest summary of belief, is evil and stupid.

The only reason someone would use these is because they hate Christianity and they want to make it look stupid, and that is an act of hate.


First we have to distinguish between a fair summary and unfair summary.

If you say "Christians believe X and X is basically saying this, you talk abou tthe logical implications of X then that's fine. But to say "here is my distorted crap taht you don't believe but I"m going to believe that that's waht your beliefs really do mean," that is nothing more than distortion and dishonesty and refusal to respect other people.

these aer not just little games to those who believe. They are very important to us, they are our sacred beliefs, they are part of who we are. When you say "your sacred belief is shit" you are saying "you are shit." Understand?

Now here is why they are wrong.

"the belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father..."



the phrase cosmic does not describe anything Christians belief about God. I don't even know what it means, but it's not part of any Christian belief, and since a modern joke term to ridicule fake swamis druggies in California it's probably there to mock and humiliate.

can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh...



"make you live forever" is not an adequate description of salvation, but let's let that slide because it's close enough for a skeptic. But the actual notion that we are saved by partaking of the Eucharist is not the case, in any version of Christianity. No creed and no chruch I know of says that we are actually by that act. Igantious said that but he's just one chruch father a long time ago and that view did not make it into Orthodoxy. Of course it's phrased in such a way as to make it sound stupid.

telepathically tell him you accept him



describing prayer as telepathic is totally inaccurate and is done so for purposes of distoring and ridiculing becuase it's stupid, it connected it to knew age stuff.



as your master



I guess that's fair enough but it's phrased in such a way as to make it unpalatable to modern people.

so he can remove an evil force form your soul



a total distortion that is used for the purpose of making it sound really stupid. No one thinks that sin is a force or that salvation means a force is removed form our body. Only fundies, get off on talking about demons and casting them out, most Christians don't believe in that, but even then it's not connected to salvation per se and that demons are "an evil force" I suppose fair enough.

That is present in humanity becuase a rib-woman was convinced



evoking mythological claims that not all Christians accept. At least half the chruch doesn't' take it literally. describing Eve as a "rib woman" is idiotic.

by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree



that's the problem faced by inerrentists but it's structured into the whole in such a way as to compound the sense of it begin stupid and mocking and ridiculing. It's also unfair to try and put mocking and ridiculing labels on all Christians for something only about half believe.


the second banner is the same kind of thing. it's a statement in the worst possible light. Mary was not impregnated by God. She may have been artificially inseminated but not has sex with. The overall statement is not reflective of the Gospel. It's dumbed down to make it sound stupid and you nkow it is. You know that it is.


compare that dumbbell talk with real theological statements:

my view on atonement:



salvation and other faiths.

14 comments:

A Hermit said...

Why is this on atheistwatch? The person who posted these pictures in your Doxa forum isn't an atheist...

Metacrock said...

who made it? did he make it no. I have seen them before. you raise a good point. That Holy Smoke outfit is not atheist but they supply atheist with info, graphics and what not. Who uses this? do you suppose no atheists use it?

I've seen and commented on sites before that use these.

Metacrock said...

Atheist video game that is pretty hatful and I've commented on it before.

video game

but there is a site I've seen with these banners before.

A Hermit said...

"That Holy Smoke outfit is not atheist but they supply atheist with info, graphics and what not. Who uses this? do you suppose no atheists use it?"

It wouldn't surprise me if some atheists post this kind of stuff, but in this case it wasn't.

To your larger point.."Saying that Christian belief is illogical is not hate, that's to be expected and it's the prerogative of those who do not believe in Christian beliefs. But to purposely misrepresent them, to twist them in such a way as to cause ridicule and then pretend that's a frank and honest summary of belief, is evil and stupid."

I think you're over-reacting, frankly (big surprise, I know...;-)) This is satire, and satire always exaggerates and oversimplifies. This isn't part of a formal debate, after all.

Although, I know plenty of Christians whose views really aren't far removed from the satirical version (you've been on CARM, am I wrong?) I still think you're missing the target around here; the problem isn't atheists, it's fanatical fundies who actually believe in that primitive kind of Christianity. They are far more influential than any atheist organization and do far more damage to your ideal of what Christianity should be.

Your next comment makes the point for me:


"Atheist video game that is pretty hatful and I've commented on it before."

Sounds pretty stupid, but I see it hasn't been released; unlike this Christian video game... in which your characters shout "praise the Lord" as they gun down the infidels...

Metacrock said...

I guess we can have a big squabble over semantics about whether satire can be hate. I it goes beyond that. I agree it's not as bad as burning a cross on a lawn or lynching but its still hateful in some ways.

Satrie can be vicious and unfair.

I like the aviator man, it's really you.

A Hermit said...

"Satrie can be vicious and unfair."

Yes it can. Sometimes it's even better that way...

I guess I don't really understand why you get upset with this; after all it's not satirizing YOUR beliefs; it's satirizing the beliefs of those fundy types you're always disagreeing with.

"I like the aviator man, it's really you"

Yes, it is me, and my Artcore semi-hollow guitar playing the blues at Clancy's bar...;-)

Metacrock said...

Yes it can. Sometimes it's even better that way...

I guess I don't really understand why you get upset with this; after all it's not satirizing YOUR beliefs; it's satirizing the beliefs of those fundy types you're always disagreeing with.

It's an act of hate. I may not be a fundie but i don't hate them I can understand them. I love Jesus I know he's real and I want others to know whim. But even if i i did not feel that it would nto make it alright to mock and ridicule the sacred beliefs of others.

It contributes to the general mindless game of "hate the Christian."


"I like the aviator man, it's really you"

Yes, it is me, and my Artcore semi-hollow guitar playing the blues at Clancy's bar...;-)

I always think of you as a rock star

A Hermit said...

"It's an act of hate."

I think it's silly, unkind, childish and I certainly don't endorse that kind of thing. Maybe it's even hateful depending on where and how it's used.

I hate to keep coming back to this, but it's my whole beef with this site so here it is:

"...even if i i did not feel that it would nto make it alright to mock and ridicule the sacred beliefs of others."

Yet you have no compunction about posting pictures of Nazis and labeling them "atheist meeting" and linking to sites that treat atheists in the same way that a certain kind of Christians are treated in those pictures. I'm sorry to harp on this but I really do think it's hypocritical of you to make a big deal out of these pictures while doing the same thing to people like me.

Metacrock said...

Yet you have no compunction about posting pictures of Nazis and labeling them "atheist meeting" and linking to sites that treat atheists in the same way that a certain kind of Christians are treated in those pictures. I'm sorry to harp on this but I really do think it's hypocritical of you to make a big deal out of these pictures while doing the same thing to people like me.

you can't sheild people from evil and expect them to understand how bad evil is. if you want to expose an evil you have to show people what it is.

The Orwell thinking is evil, it is Nazi thinking. That doesn't mean those atheists on carm are really Nazis but they definitely just lesser versions of the same kind of rationalizations that led to nazi thinking.

A Hermit said...

'you can't sheild people from evil and expect them to understand how bad evil is. if you want to expose an evil you have to show people what it is."

By engaging in the same behaviour yourself? I don't think that's the way to go about it.

A Hermit said...

"The Orwell thinking is evil, it is Nazi thinking. That doesn't mean those atheists on carm are really Nazis but they definitely just lesser versions of the same kind of rationalizations that led to nazi thinking."

And that's an insult not just to the people on CARM but also to the victims of the real Nazis.

The other problem with using images and captions like those here is that it makes people like me less inclined to listen to what you might have to say. This is why I keep telling you your disclaimers are pointless. When an atheist visits this blog and sees an image like this one: Local Atheist Discussion Club
or this one :atheists struggle answer God arguments they aren't going to be inclined to read the following post to find if there's a disclaimer buried somewhere in the fine print.

You're going beyond hyperbole and satire to a particularly vicious kind of hate yourself whenever you do this kind of thing. I don't see how you can fight hate by becoming hateful.

Metacrock said...

stop your little hyper sensetive pollitically drivel. no one made you the offical mourner or monument keeper for the victims of the holocaust. you can't tell me they would not be the first to applaud any attempt to steer the thinking of the masses away from the seeds of Nazism.

I've seen atheists used Hitler was Christrian, so Chrsitians are all guilty of Hitler's sins. I've seen many say that. I've seen them use Nazi graphics with the Pope's picture and with churches and Christians.

you are just big old hypocrite whining about your precious little didn't get away with their hate crap.

Metacrock said...

By engaging in the same behaviour yourself? I don't think that's the way to go about it.

It's obviously not the same behavior. but why am I talking to you. You have stated that you do not accept my fairness or my attempts to be fair, and you were very insulting about, and you just got trough stabbing me in the back again on CARM the other day.

I am convienced you are not really upset this is a callculated ploy to control things here.

I have always pionted out to the Hitler using atheists who say "Hitler was a Christian" that Stalin was an atheist, then I always follow it up saying but I"m just saying this for argument I don't really believe alla thesits are like Stalin. But I'm not going to say that anymore since my attempts at being fair are so stupid and useless. I'm not going to be fair anymore because you don't appreciate when I've tried to be fair.

Only an idiot would think what I"m doing is the same, tell me why I should be fair when my protestations of fairness or so full of shit and so misguided and unimportant?

all you are saying is "think my way do it my way or else" well who does that remind you of?

A Hermit said...

Let's try this again:

"Only an idiot would think what I"m doing is the same, tell me why I should be fair when my protestations of fairness or so full of shit and so misguided and unimportant?"

I'm not saying your disclaimers are insincere; I'm saying they are ineffective because you bury them under the kinds of hateful images you put at the top of your posts.